Or maybe I’ll just keep posting that stuff on my own blog, or maybe join FM which seems to be massively more oriented to photography rather than a bunch of scientists having a pissing contest
Or maybe I’ll just keep posting that stuff on my own blog, or maybe join FM which seems to be massively more oriented to photography rather than a bunch of scientists having a pissing contest
Lets summarise all we have learnt:
- If your [primary] goal is to maximise your [raw] file and you have time to slow down…… then ETTR at base ISO'
I have time to slow down, so what is meant by "maximise"?
- If your primary goal is to work FAST and get great images, use M mode with Auto ISO.
- A middle way is to use a fixed ISO and M mode, but you’ll have to disable live view if you want to see anything in your EVF or rear screen after dark (no thanks!).
2&3 are not applicable to my camera, so no comment.
@BurnImage has written:Lets summarise all we have learnt:
- If your [primary] goal is to maximise your [raw] file and you have time to slow down…… then ETTR at base ISO'
I have time to slow down, so what is meant by "maximise"?
Quoted message:
- If your primary goal is to work FAST and get great images, use M mode with Auto ISO.
- A middle way is to use a fixed ISO and M mode, but you’ll have to disable live view if you want to see anything in your EVF or rear screen after dark (no thanks!).
2&3 are not applicable to my camera, so no comment.
I think you meant to say your way of working. Because clearly my points are not camera specific. Some folk won’t or don’t need to understand this. And that’s fine. Crack on!
bunch of scientists having a pissing contest
That's very pejorative. That's not what people are doing here.
@Mackiesback has written: @BurnImage has written: @IliahBorg has written: @JimKasson has written: @IliahBorg has written:Most of the digital MF setups I've seen are not quite as effective as "MF is the silver bullet" folks expected before spending the money.
Yes, but that's 'science'.
Yes, and this forum has effectively become “dpscience”. Which is fine if that’s the expected direction. For real world photography there’s not much happening on here. In fact, if anyone dares relate any of this back to the real world you get told off, talked down to or insulted. 😂😂😂😂😂😂
My guess is that you have far more posts on "science" threads here than anything else. You may counter with "that's all there is", to which my reply would be for you to find the start new thread button and get it started. This forum is a blank canvas. If you want more image threads, or whatever you are looking for here, simply start it. I will click on it.
Or maybe I’ll just keep posting that stuff on my own blog, or maybe join FM which seems to be massively more oriented to photography rather than a bunch of scientists having a pissing contest
Seems to me you are doing close to half of the pissing
@JimKasson has written: @IliahBorg has written:Most of the digital MF setups I've seen are not quite as effective as "MF is the silver bullet" folks expected before spending the money.
Every working photographer immediately rushes out to upgrade to MF 😉
You may need to step back a bit and realize how much of the innuendo that you perceive here comes from yourself.
Jim gave a number, not a statement that "you must get this 0.37 stops of lower photon noise, or your images are riddled with noise".
Options; not mandates.
@DonaldB has written: @knickerhawk has written:If it's a dark, colorful bird in flight and strongly backlit by the sun so that most of its visible body is shaded and especially the under-wing feathers are deeply shaded but its head is drenched in sunlight,
Buy a Sony FF camera . shot with m43 for years.
It's a good idea to study Bill Claff's dynamic range graphs too. I don't think your FF camera has to be made by Sony.
But it does seem that in general the larger format sensors have greater dynamic range.Don Cox
Larger sensors have more DR only if you can give them more light.
Larger sensors have more DR only if you can give them more light.
They have more DR if you give them the same number of photons per unit area, but there are sometimes reasons why you can't -- or don't want to -- do that.
Practically, taking full advantage of larger sensors means longer exposures at equivalent apertures. Twas ever thus, even in the film days.
Practically, taking full advantage of larger sensors means longer exposures at equivalent apertures. Twas ever thus, even in the film days.
That makes sense to me
Alan
@DonaldB has written:I'll be out of pocket for several days, but I hope this might stimulate some legit discussion that gets the thread back on track. Unfortunately, I probably won't be able to reply to questions/comments until next Sunday.
your testing method is not going to be accurate because the red channel is not going to be the same colour red , i shot a red lunch box and my in-camera histogram was pretty well spot on .given the colour red is a mix of rgb colours. i might be wrong ,but someone more experienced might chip in.
Red plastic isn't a problem, unless it's fluorescent. Red flowers are the problem.
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i think you buggered up your copy and pastes and qutoes. gets me all the time as well.
@SrMi has written:Larger sensors have more DR only if you can give them more light.
They have more DR if you give them the same number of photons per unit area, but there are sometimes reasons why you can't -- or don't want to -- do that.
Practically, taking full advantage of larger sensors means longer exposures at equivalent apertures. Twas ever thus, even in the film days.
Yes. On the other hand …
When shooting handheld, in low light, the slowest possible shutter speed is fixed, regardless of sensor size. This means that with equivalent apertures and at lower light (handheld), contrary to conventional wisdom, larger sensors do not have an advantage. Correct?
When shooting handheld, in low light, the slowest possible shutter speed is fixed, regardless of sensor size. This means that with equivalent apertures and at lower light (handheld), contrary to conventional wisdom, larger sensors do not have an advantage. Correct?
Correct, except, possibly the "contrary to conventional wisdom" part. All the photographers I know well don't buy into what you're calling conventional wisdom.
Most important feature of MF for me would be the beautiful skin tone reproduction. and the overall look of the image.
Assumes facts not in evidence:
blog.kasson.com/the-last-word/format-size-and-image-quality/
@JimKasson has written: @SrMi has written:Larger sensors have more DR only if you can give them more light.
They have more DR if you give them the same number of photons per unit area, but there are sometimes reasons why you can't -- or don't want to -- do that.
Practically, taking full advantage of larger sensors means longer exposures at equivalent apertures. Twas ever thus, even in the film days.
Yes. On the other hand …
When shooting handheld, in low light, the slowest possible shutter speed is fixed, regardless of sensor size. This means that with equivalent apertures and at lower light (handheld), contrary to conventional wisdom, larger sensors do not have an advantage. Correct?
Bigger pixels win ,nothing more to say on the subject.
Sorry folks, had a Phil Askey moment - got fed up with the negativity, and put it all here. People can still follow that line of discussion if they want, but it stops it polluting Jim's thread.
Bigger pixels win ,nothing more to say on the subject.
They do not. Today, full well capacities are running around 3000 electrons per square micrometer regardless of pixel size.
@DonaldB has written:Bigger pixels win ,nothing more to say on the subject.
They do not. Today, full well capacities are running around 3000 electrons per square micrometer regardless of pixel size.
Mainly comes from designing to 100 ISO and getting a fairly consistent QE.
@DonaldB has written:Bigger pixels win ,nothing more to say on the subject.
They do not. Today, full well capacities are running around 3000 electrons per square micrometer regardless of pixel size.
I shot with m43 for 5 years professionally and now sony FF for 3 years. i could post many (1000 of in studio portraits , but not to offend M43 users
i will keep the outcome to my self.
BTW i won a debate on this same subject years ago with the sony a7s3 and s2 when no one picked up the s3 was a 48meg sensor 😁