• Members 2365 posts
    May 17, 2023, 8:34 p.m.

    I shot with m43 for 5 years professionally and now sony FF for 3 years. i could post many (1000 of in studio portraits , but not to offend M43 users
    i will keep the outcome to my self.
    BTW i won a debate on this same subject years ago with the sony a7s3 and s2 when no one picked up the s3 was a 48meg sensor 😁

  • Members 1738 posts
    May 17, 2023, 8:36 p.m.

    Sounds like you are not comparing pixel sizes. You are comparing sensor sizes.

  • Members 2365 posts
    May 17, 2023, 8:36 p.m.

    BTW i won a debate on this same subject years ago with the sony a7s3 and s2 when no one picked up the s3 was a 48meg sensor 😁

  • Members 457 posts
    May 17, 2023, 8:38 p.m.

    I should have used the term “myth” instead of the sarcastic “conventional wisdom.”
    It s very common to read the claim that larger sensors are better for low light. That is true only in certain conditions (possibility of longer exposures or non-equivalent apertures).

  • Members 457 posts
    May 17, 2023, 8:41 p.m.

    When using the same technology and comparing at the same output size, same sensor size, bigger pixels do not have an advantage. You can try it out on DPR studio scene.

  • Members 83 posts
    May 17, 2023, 8:49 p.m.

    Do I understand that you are writing about full well per sensor area and not full well per photo site?

    Photo sites per sensor area would make no difference if only interested in sensor area?

    But, crop sensor with more photo sites per area than full size sensor at the same pixel resolution would have more visible noise than full size sensor?

    If only interested in sensor area, then larger sensor wins. I interested in noise per pixel, pixel size wins.

  • Members 2365 posts
    May 17, 2023, 8:51 p.m.

    Look up sony a7s3 48meg sensor binned to 12 and the sony a7s2 straight 12 meg large pixel on DXOmark. the s2 blows the s3 away.

  • May 17, 2023, 8:51 p.m.

    I remember that. I don't remember you winning.
    Anyhow, one example doesn't prove a point, because sensors are designed things - it's not the case that each example exactly follows a rule. It seems to be the case that most image sensor design houses uses essentially the same pixel design (that is transistor layout) across a range of pixel sizes, just varying the 'photodiode' area. In that case the per-pixel read noise is the same across that range of sensors, which causes the higher pixel count ones to suffer from slight higher read noise, and thus a tad more noise apparent when the black level goes down below the read noise. As a general trend though it's very hard to demonstrate a systematic advantage for larger pixels.

  • May 17, 2023, 8:53 p.m.

    Why are you interested in noise per pixel?

  • Members 435 posts
    May 17, 2023, 9:01 p.m.
  • Members 1738 posts
    May 17, 2023, 9:02 p.m.

    I don’t care about noise per pixel. I care about noise at same print size.

  • Members 83 posts
    May 17, 2023, 9:08 p.m.

    Sorry, the "f" disappeared from my "If" and my proofreading also failed. :)

    But, sometimes I want to produce an image 4500x3000 pixels and send it off to be printed. In this case, with low light, the pixels will appear less noisy if the sensor had larger pixels all else being equal.

  • Members 2365 posts
    May 17, 2023, 9:17 p.m.

    I also remember when i compared a straight out of camera shot from my a7r2 and a 8 shot hi res shot 50 meg image from my em1mk2 again the a7r2 won easily.
    also shooting extreme macro and stacking 70 images larger pixel again wins hands down. because your only stacking noise with smaller sensor and less pixel bleeding. again larger pixels stacked wins here as well.

  • Members 457 posts
    May 17, 2023, 9:19 p.m.
  • Members 435 posts
    May 17, 2023, 9:26 p.m.

    Well you could probably get in touch with them and let them know.

  • Members 457 posts
    May 17, 2023, 9:31 p.m.

    Why did you recommend it?

  • Members 435 posts
    May 17, 2023, 9:39 p.m.

    I can recommend a lot more if you like. Problem is we would go back and forth like the rest of this thread and that's not going to happen. If you want to correct them, contact them and let them know. It's very easy to do.

  • May 17, 2023, 9:43 p.m.

    My experience is that these sites tend to ignore that information. Haven't got in touch with that one yet, though.
    Anyway, I posted thins in the comments at the bottom:

    It's awaiting approval, let's see if they do.