But Danno, didn't you know that the ISO setting magically changes the sensor's sensitivity - thereby circumventing all known laws of physics?
But Danno, didn't you know that the ISO setting magically changes the sensor's sensitivity - thereby circumventing all known laws of physics?
Before I must have thought that this is a function usually performed by the native tonecurve belonging to a development profile designed by the camera manufacturer, aka a "film"simulation. I'm asking this because I still assume that the physical (fwc) limits on sensor photodiodes will be out of the loop during postprocessing in this meagre way.
It occurs when using all the Lr profiles. There are tone curves baked into those profiles, but what I'm talking about is the way the Lr "Exposure" control works on the data after it comes out of the profile.
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@xpatUSA has written:The said Triangle, apart from controversy, is no good to me because I always use base ISO. Therefore, taking away ISO as a variable leaves me geometrically with a line ... just as adding EC above apparently begets a quadrangle.
Have I just proved the falsity of using the sides of geometric figures to demonstrate stuff? ...
No. The exposure triangle can be thought of as a horizontal slice of an exposure pyramid™. Each horizontal level fixes the lightness. When you fix the ISO, you allow variable lightness levels, thus you stay on one lateral side of the pyramid, instead of on a horizontal slice; and that side is ... a triangle as well. 😲
Interesting! I had never heard of the Pyramid, so I went here:
exposureworks.co.uk/exposure-triangle-aperture-shutter-speed-iso-cheat-card/
The addition of light made it most illuminating. 😉
There, I learned that, if you up the aperture by 3 steps, you should raise the shutter speed by the same ...
.. here in Texas we say "If yew had'na told me that, ah would never of known". Some shorten that down to "Izzadda fak?"
Also learned that, if you up the aperture by 3 steps, you should up the ISO by the same while the shutter speed stays the same by magic.
Quoted message:The 'threeness' of a relationship between three variables is not in question, what's in question is whether the 'exposure triangle' itself offers any additional insight into that relationship, apart from there being three variables.
As I explained, it does.
That depends on which of the several versions you choose.
@DannoLeftForums has written:A visual concept might be useful to primary school kids but I don't need a triangle or any other visual concept to understand that for a constant image lightness, not constant exposure*, there is an inverse relationship between any 2 of aperture, shutter speed and ISO.
Inverse or not, depends on the way you express it but what you are saying is that there is a relationship between the three. Next thing you will be talking about triangles…
Nope, in your actual quote of what I said I explain why I don't need a triangle or any other shape to enable me to understand that for a constant image lightness, not constant exposure*, there is an inverse relationship between any 2 of aperture, shutter speed and ISO 🙂
* exposure - amount of light that struck the sensor per unit area while the shutter was open
@JACS has written: @DannoLeftForums has written:A visual concept might be useful to primary school kids but I don't need a triangle or any other visual concept to understand that for a constant image lightness, not constant exposure*, there is an inverse relationship between any 2 of aperture, shutter speed and ISO.
Inverse or not, depends on the way you express it but what you are saying is that there is a relationship between the three. Next thing you will be talking about triangles…
Nope, in your actual quote of what I said I explain why I don't need a triangle or any other shape to enable me to understand that for a constant image lightness, not constant exposure, there is an inverse relationship between any 2 of aperture, shutter speed and ISO 🙂
It occurs to me that there might some sort of support for that in the ISO Standard Output Sensitivity Method because it is based on a constant image lightness of 118/255.
The cognoscenti of this site should know more about that ...
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@Sagittarius has written:ISO which regulates sensitivity to the light
As a matter of fact, ISO doesn't do that. ISO is a lame film analogy. Also, ET suggests ISO regulates noise.
I call it as it's being called in camera manual, in the books etc. You can call it what ever you feel. And changing it in camera produces the same affect as changing sensitivity to the light (will require more or less light to produce the same image lightness for the same illumination). You can change it in camera or in post, still the same.
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@DannoLeftForums has written: @JACS has written: @DannoLeftForums has written:A visual concept might be useful to primary school kids but I don't need a triangle or any other visual concept to understand that for a constant image lightness, not constant exposure*, there is an inverse relationship between any 2 of aperture, shutter speed and ISO.
Inverse or not, depends on the way you express it but what you are saying is that there is a relationship between the three. Next thing you will be talking about triangles…
Nope, in your actual quote of what I said I explain why I don't need a triangle or any other shape to enable me to understand that for a constant image lightness, not constant exposure*, there is an inverse relationship between any 2 of aperture, shutter speed and ISO 🙂
Just because you do no need it, doesn’t mean it is not there.
Strictly speaking, it is wrong that “there is an inverse relationship between any 2 of aperture, shutter speed and ISO” for a constant lightness. There is relationship between the three, and it is reduced to a relationship between any two only if the third one is fixed.
By including "for a constant image lightness, not exposure*,..." I have never needed to say the third remains fixed for people to understand what I meant.
In the example camera settings I post people see that the 3rd setting is fixed without me having to tell them.
* exposure - amount of light that struck the sensor per unit area while the shutter was open.
@JACS has written: @DannoLeftForums has written: @JACS has written: @DannoLeftForums has written:A visual concept might be useful to primary school kids but I don't need a triangle or any other visual concept to understand that for a constant image lightness, not constant exposure*, there is an inverse relationship between any 2 of aperture, shutter speed and ISO.
Inverse or not, depends on the way you express it but what you are saying is that there is a relationship between the three. Next thing you will be talking about triangles…
Nope, in your actual quote of what I said I explain why I don't need a triangle or any other shape to enable me to understand that for a constant image lightness, not constant exposure*, there is an inverse relationship between any 2 of aperture, shutter speed and ISO 🙂
Just because you do no need it, doesn’t mean it is not there.
Strictly speaking, it is wrong that “there is an inverse relationship between any 2 of aperture, shutter speed and ISO” for a constant lightness. There is relationship between the three, and it is reduced to a relationship between any two only if the third one is fixed.
By including "for a constant image lightness, not exposure*,..." I have never needed to say the third remains fixed for people to understand what I meant.
* exposure - amount of light that struck the sensor per unit area while the shutter was open.
By doing that, you made it wrong. It would have been wrong if you did not do that as well. And no, two wrongs do not make one right here.
@DannoLeftForums has written: @JACS has written: @DannoLeftForums has written: @JACS has written: @DannoLeftForums has written:A visual concept might be useful to primary school kids but I don't need a triangle or any other visual concept to understand that for a constant image lightness, not constant exposure*, there is an inverse relationship between any 2 of aperture, shutter speed and ISO.
Inverse or not, depends on the way you express it but what you are saying is that there is a relationship between the three. Next thing you will be talking about triangles…
Nope, in your actual quote of what I said I explain why I don't need a triangle or any other shape to enable me to understand that for a constant image lightness, not constant exposure*, there is an inverse relationship between any 2 of aperture, shutter speed and ISO 🙂
Just because you do no need it, doesn’t mean it is not there.
Strictly speaking, it is wrong that “there is an inverse relationship between any 2 of aperture, shutter speed and ISO” for a constant lightness. There is relationship between the three, and it is reduced to a relationship between any two only if the third one is fixed.
By including "for a constant image lightness, not exposure*,..." I have never needed to say the third remains fixed for people to understand what I meant.
* exposure - amount of light that struck the sensor per unit area while the shutter was open.
By doing that, you made it wrong. It would have been wrong if you did not do that as well. And no, two wrongs do not make one right here.
We'll just have to disagree on this one.
With the example camera settings I post people see the 3rd setting is fixed so there is no confusion in what I am saying.
And changing it in camera produces the same affect as changing sensitivity to the light (will require more or less light to produce the same image lightness for the same illumination).
That's changing the responsivity, not the sensitivity. In any case, to think that changing responsivity of a transducer is the only way to change the output of the system in which it's used is a grave conceptual error. It's like saying that the only way to make your record player louder is to buy a cartridge with a larger output. Then going on to say that the volume control is in fact a cartridge 'sensitivity' control.
I call it as it's being called in camera manual, in the books etc.
Yes, and how it's being called distorts physics behind the camera operation.
Learning of the relationship between aperture, shutter speed, scene brightness and exposure.
Don
Learning of the relationship between aperture, shutter speed, scene brightness and exposure.
Don
Maybe also between exposure and noise / clipping.
@DonCox has written:Learning of the relationship between aperture, shutter speed, scene brightness and exposure.
DonMaybe also between exposure and noise / clipping.
In fact, that it elevates what is probably the least important concern in exposure management to be the most important, and indeed the sole concern.
@IliahBorg has written: @DonCox has written:Learning of the relationship between aperture, shutter speed, scene brightness and exposure.
DonMaybe also between exposure and noise / clipping.
In fact, that it elevates what is probably the least important concern in exposure management to be the most important, and indeed the sole concern.
Unrealistic ugly pictures are always a concern.
@JimKasson has written:there is not one that reflects 0% of the light
We are getting close 0.035%
How much does that change with a day's worth of dust?