• Members 1738 posts
    June 14, 2023, 2:50 p.m.

    Here's a teaser on where I'm starting to take this:

    z7 efcs 14-bit hi lo EDR.png

    z7 efcs 14-bit hi lo EDR.png

    PNG, 121.7 KB, uploaded by JimKasson on June 14, 2023.

  • Members 549 posts
    June 14, 2023, 5:04 p.m.

    Well, I stuck with the language that I replied to. I don't know what happens with increased input, but I would assume that the two different conversions gains had different asymptotes after they also went non-linear at different levels.

  • Members 1738 posts
    June 14, 2023, 5:06 p.m.

    When you say different levels, do you mean charge levels or voltage levels?

  • Removed user
    June 14, 2023, 6:52 p.m.

    Outside the pale of course, but the first Foveon (F7) said "Well capacity is approximately 77,000 electrons per photodiode but the usual operating point (for restricted non-linearity) corresponds to about 45,000 electrons"

    kronometric.org/phot/sensor/fov/SD9%20sensor%20in%20depth.pdf

  • Members 549 posts
    June 14, 2023, 7:21 p.m.

    Photon levels.

  • Removed user
    June 14, 2023, 7:26 p.m.

    Not all, as Jim just said.

    On one of my cameras, the ISO setting does not change the raw data at all.

  • Members 1738 posts
    June 14, 2023, 7:43 p.m.

    I was talking about the asymptote value, not the stimulus.

  • Members 549 posts
    June 15, 2023, 2:09 a.m.

    Then you have the other extreme, like the Canon G9 I have (CCD), which uses analog gain to vary all ISO settings, but there is no visible difference at all. The camera goes from ISO 80 to 1600, but if you expose for 6400 in raw mode at either 80 or 1600, the read noise looks exactly the same. I coined the term, "gain in vain" for this camera. It may as well just use the gain from ISO 80 at all ISOs. Yes, the histogram is very natural and filled at ISO 1600; it's not an arithmetic push. The pre-gain read noise is just so much higher than the post-gain read noise (even at ISO 80) that you can't see the post-gain read noise (which means it probably has little spatial correlation).