• Members 767 posts
    July 7, 2023, 7:11 p.m.

    Dig,

    The lanterns have a fixed little platform that coated slightly in wax.
    No. You would not want to set those off in a dry environment.
    Where I live, it has been storming heavily for the last week or so, so everything is pretty wet.
    There's probably areas of the country where they have forbidden fireworks altogether.

    Steve Thomas

  • Members 1662 posts
    July 7, 2023, 7:46 p.m.

    I think I get what you‘re saying, because (if memory serves me right) our FOV is significantly wider than what’s considered a "normal" lens. Even a 35 mm won‘t do it justice. But a lot of it is "peripheral sight" so vastly out of focus/blurred/distorted.

    The thing about wider lenses, is that everything is somewhat in focus which is extremely unnatural for our eyes/the part of our brain responsible for sight (at least I perceive it that way). I think a WA tilt lens or some old petzval projection lens with a big image circle might actually get closer to what we experience in the scene. I doubt that‘s what you (or most people for that matter) would find pleasing to look at, but that‘s my assumption anyway.

    Will have to try that in the future…

  • July 7, 2023, 8:39 p.m.

    Yes! Absolutely correct. When I look at the centre of the 16 or 15mm photo from the appropriate distance to make me feel „there“, the edges are out of focus, as in real life, but as soon as I move my eyes to the edges, I can focus on them. So, although all the photo is technically in focus, I dont expect to take it all in at once, and I can choose what to look at at any moment. I guess it‘s a bit like IMAX, or a stitched together panorama view. But I like that it can be done in one single photo.

    David

  • Members 1662 posts
    July 7, 2023, 9:23 p.m.

    IMAX is an interesting comparison, because if I understand it correctly it's made in a way which covers almost our whole field of view (including the peripheral sight), so in an IMAX cinema it's working in the intended way, because you can only 'fully' focus on part of the image and ideally you follow with your eyes what the director wants you to see. It helps with immersion. But that's usually not the case at all when looking at still images, unless they're

    a.) printed out REALLY big and you're standing right in front of them or

    b.) you're viewing them on one of those giant curved monitors and again, you're very close.

    curved.jpg

    If you do that, I actually agree - you'll get a similar experience to what you had in the very moment you took the photograph. I'd actually love to try that to see if it really improves immersion significantly. But looking at a wide angle image on a regular screen at the typical viewing distance leaves me with a feeling of unnaturalness/disconnect. That's why I think something in between (perhaps 24-28 mm with very good distortion correction) is probably what I would go for as a maximum, if I wanted to attempt capturing what you're going after.

    But to be honest, that's all just a bunch of assumptions anyway. What do I know about street photography, landscapes or architecture? (the answer is: nothing! 😅)

    Here's a quick illustration though of what I would think of as 'natural human view':
    davidwien_edit.jpg

    As expected it won't be interesting to most people. However I'm very curious to try that....

    davidwien_edit.jpg

    JPG, 959.7 KB, uploaded by simplejoy on July 7, 2023.

    curved.jpg

    JPG, 56.8 KB, uploaded by simplejoy on July 7, 2023.

  • Members 1662 posts
    July 7, 2023, 9:35 p.m.

    Absolutely get that... beautiful captures! I like these two in particular and I'm a big fan of daisies.

  • Members 1662 posts
    July 7, 2023, 9:36 p.m.
  • Members 2365 posts
    July 7, 2023, 9:46 p.m.

    from one extreme to another dof.

    w478.jpg

    w14 (2023_04_01 06_34_30 UTC) (2023_06_30 21_51_49 UTC).jpg

    w478.jpg

    JPG, 1.6 MB, uploaded by DonaldB on July 7, 2023.

    w14 (2023_04_01 06_34_30 UTC) (2023_06_30 21_51_49 UTC).jpg

    JPG, 755.7 KB, uploaded by DonaldB on July 7, 2023.

  • Members 1855 posts
    July 7, 2023, 10:47 p.m.

    David,

    I have used 15mm FL with my mirrorless lens. If the buildings and subject matter are close, then there will be that wide angle distortion. It's OK...afterall...it's our art. What I try to do is keep the center part of the picture straight and then to each side you can see things leaning to the left or to the right.

    Here's an example.

    ResizedOP1R1.jpg
    Model - Canon EOS M50m2
    ExposureTime - 1/320 seconds
    FNumber - 11
    ISOSpeedRatings - 1250
    ExposureBiasValue - 0
    FocalLength - 15 mm
    Lens Model - EF-M15-45mm f/3.5-6.3 IS STM

    ResizedOP1R1.jpg

    JPG, 354.2 KB, uploaded by Digirame on July 7, 2023.

  • Members 1855 posts
    July 7, 2023, 10:56 p.m.

    Simplejoy and David,

    Doesn't the FOV also depend on whether a person wears glasses or not? 😀 I read that it does change quite a bit.

  • Members 1855 posts
    July 7, 2023, 10:58 p.m.

    Simplejoy,

    Your flower picture is very pleasing. I enjoyed seeing it.

  • Members 1855 posts
    July 7, 2023, 11:08 p.m.

    Donald,

    I like how you showed photos with DOF from one extreme to another. I usually only show flowers with a large (deep) depth of field. I think it's just my personality to want to keep things in focus, with no softness. I only like color too. I don't know...we are all different. 😀

  • Members 643 posts
    July 8, 2023, 8:05 a.m.

    No, these weren't in a field, they were in a wildflower bank - basically a long mound covered with grass and wilflowers.

  • July 8, 2023, 10:50 a.m.

    Digi,

    Thanks for your comments. Possibly my eyes work different from yours (I dont find any difference perceptually with or without my glasses), but can you be more specific about the wide-angle distortion distortion you see in the 16mm lens?

    David

  • July 8, 2023, 10:52 a.m.

    Digi,

    Surely, if you keep the lens horizontal it prevents the leaning effect at the sides — which can also be corrected in software.

    (Of course, trees are a problem, as they are not always vertical in nature!)

    David

  • Members 1855 posts
    July 8, 2023, 3:35 p.m.

    David,

    I can't see the EXIF data any longer, so I don't know what photo was taken at 16mm FL. I was making a general comment; I didn't analyze them. I think what you are doing is fine. I see wide angle distortion all of the time in my photos, but then I look for it. It's more evident for example if there's many vertical poles or posts in the photo. Look at the doors and windows and see if they are perfectly straight on either side. If they are straight, then you don't have wide angle distortion.

    I also see telephoto compression often in my photos too. So I know that pictures can distort reality. But that's OK...as one famous photographer said, taking pictures is creating instant paintings. He was a painter too, so he appreciated that we could create art with a push of a button. I also look at photos as art.

    A little edit: Even though I can't see the EXIF data (it comes and goes on DPRevived for me), I believe from what you wrote the second picture was taken at 16mm FL. Again, look at the doors and windows on either side. The "leaning" is very slight. When we are closer to the subject matter the wide angle distortion is a lot more. By the way, I really like your photos taken from that camera. I suppose I should get one of those full frame cameras. What do you think of the Canon R? The price is not too expensive. I would just start with a kit lens.

  • July 8, 2023, 4:13 p.m.

    DIg,

    Thanks for your helpful comments. If I understand you correctly, there are two main components to this distortion at the edges:

    1. Vertical lines not vertical
    2. Straight lines not straight.

    I dont like either of them. No.2 depends on the quality of the lens. Distortion in RF lenses is controlled and for most of the series is corrected in camera (jpeg files) or in software (raw files).

    As I said above, No.1 is a question of holding the camera horizontal or, when that is impossible with tall buildings, etc, it can also be corrected in software.

    Yes, but I find the two distortions off-putting in the case of photos of buildings.

    I have also noticed this and will report it now I know it is not just me! If you refresh the page (F5 on PC) the EXIF returns.

    Then that is my fault: leaning is avoidable in the final result.

    I was amazed at the improvement when I compared the RP to my 5D, and I still dont know what is responsible for it. The R is a good camera, though some people do not like the ergonomics of the rear controls. I still have the RP, and it is no slouch: it's only disadvantage is that the shutter stays open when you turn the power off to change the lens. If you are only going to have one lens to start with, I recommend the RF 24 -- 240 mm. When not doing silly tests like I have been recently, I use it a lot. But there are good reviews of both on Ken Rockwell (comparative) and DPR.

    David

    Edit: PS: I hope you dont mind, I have had a go at un-leaning your photo edges -- not as easy as with raw files, and I havent managed it totally; but less leaning. You have to lose some of the edges in the process!

    digirame_DxO-1.jpg

    digirame_DxO-1.jpg

    JPG, 2.1 MB, uploaded by davidwien on July 8, 2023.