The Difficulty in Explaining Equivalence

You are right, he won't care and will just shift his goalposts around to confuse the situation more than it already is.

Thankfully this debate isn't happening in the open forum. After TC locked the thread, EZGritz wanted to keep going so he sent me a PM to tell me I was wrong, didn't understand etc. So this has all been playing out in PMs. If it had been in the open forum, I think I'd have been put into the sandbox with you by now!

Ha ha, I am pretty sure you will win. If it was within my power, I would make you DPR m4/3 moderator for a week. That would be fun to watch.

my a7iv blows any camera FF or M43 away ive owned by a huge amount in low light focusing.

shooting close ups is a lot less noticeable from the first set of images i posted.

Those photos mean zero and show nothing really.

If you want to compare DOF's you should string out a tape measure on the ground for at least a couple of metres and photograph it under different conditions to compare the DOF's along the tape measure in the various shots.

the mods are pulling all the tricks to make MF look better compared to FF. i just reprocessed 2 images that were posted as a comparision . the WB was deliberately set off to show more natural colours and more detail favering MF. as soon as i took them both into ACR and corrected WB you could barely tell the 2 images apart. so i posted my findings and my post was deleted instantly 😁 i knew it would, which makes DPR site as dishonest as a dodgy car sales yard.

You are asking people to take your word for it regarding the 2 images you posted were not dodgy.

Maybe they were, maybe they weren't.

You can't expect everyone to just take your word for it. Some will and some won't.

are you not capable to adjust WB 🤨 , if not make a new thread asking for help.

I doubt anyone doubts you can adjust WB.

But just because you are able to adjust WB does not mean the images you posted are not dodgy. They might or might not have been.

As I said, you are asking people to just take your word for it. Some will and some won't.

Maybe the moderator at DPR had good reason to delete your post because we're hearing only your side of the story here.

Yes, you're right. He is not going to back down/ From the tone of the responses, he is quite sure that he is right! I've sent him one more message using GB's example scenario. No response yet but I think I'm done with it.

There's already a meaning "of "MF" in common usage: Medium Format. Why do you add confusion by referring to what is called "m43" or "MFT" (which almost everyone understands) as "MF"? You're the "A ninety-three" guy too, aren't you? Saving one character is really efficient, isn't it?

My own recent experiments shooting up close (like at 1:1 magnification or more) revealed something to me: There's no DOF difference at all when using the same f-number on different formats to produce an image with the same framing, the same noise, etc. That's a surprise at first because we habitually discuss equivalence in terms of focal length and f-number. But those terms get slippery at focus distances other than infinity, so to cover all the circumstances we should probably be using terms like magnification and 'apparent' f-number. Even the term '1:1 magnification' gets slippery when comparing formats. If the larger sensor format is shooting a tiny object at 1:1 magnification in-camera, the smaller sensor format will capture the same image at the same f-number and at less than 1:1 magnification in-camera.

An all too common tactic that gets boring/annoying really, really fast.

In the past, I didn't engage people who I considered "willfully ignorant" via PM. I would always tell them to start a thread on the matter, preferably in the Photographic Science and Technology forum, but, with only a single exception, they refused. They don't want what they're saying to be in public, for obvious reasons.

Honestly, I'd be pretty chill, like this site. So long as the willfully ignorant were not abusive, I'd let them have their say, especially as I'm quite the fan of watching people punch themselves in the face, with their backers cheering them on, "You got'em, man! Keep blocking those fists with your face -- he's getting tired!" 😁

That said, I never had interest in being a moderator (pretend, for the briefest of moments, that an offer would ever be extended). It's a conflict of interest, as I'm a player. It would be like having someone from one of the teams playing ref a game. No matter how honest they are, there's an obvious conflict of interest.

I would like to say that DPR should have a rule that a moderator cannot moderate a thread they participate in, but the moderators would likely share a "code", like police, and act as a gang. The only way to make that work is if the identity of the moderators was made known only to the admins and forum software randomly assigned them threads to moderate and blocked them from posting in said threads. Of course, even that isn't perfect, but a lot better than how things work over there.

At the very least, mods need to be held accountable for their moderation, just as police need to be held accountable for their actions, but, as we all know, the admins don't care, and even if such a system were implemented, it would be, "We've investigated our own and found no wrong doing." Maybe the occasional sacrificial lamb to give the illusion of something being done to the masses, but that would be about it. Might seem strange to people who are not native to Earth, though. 😉

If he's still posting puzzles, has anything really been fixed?

Moderators have been held accountable by Admin where on some occasions banned members have been reinstated after Admin were asked to review the ban.

Again, we are hearing only one side of the story when "refugees" from DPR come here licking their wounds and looking for sympathy while whinging about the way they were treated over there.

I think some of the moderators over there are laughing at the whinging I see over here.

i will test using 10:1 microscope objectives using very acurate system and tell you the results between apsc and FF.