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The Beginners Questions Area

MarshallG
April 11, 2023
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    IliahBorg
    Members 976 posts
    April 28, 2023, 11:55 a.m. April 28, 2023, 11:55 a.m.
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    @DonaldB has written:
    @IliahBorg has written:
    @DonaldB has written:

    i post a simple image

    That's the problem, you haven't. A screenshot isn't the images we need to see. Pushing JPEGs much?

    dont you read my posts ? iso 4000 raw processed no adjustments. iso 100 pushed to reach the same brightness as the iso 4000 image. the difference is in the shadows. WB is also off shooting underexposed.

    Post the raw files. Simple.

    CrashpcCZ likes this.

    favorite 1

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    DonaldB
    Members 2365 posts
    April 28, 2023, 12:07 p.m. April 28, 2023, 12:07 p.m.
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    @IliahBorg has written:
    @DonaldB has written:
    @IliahBorg has written:
    @DonaldB has written:

    i post a simple image

    That's the problem, you haven't. A screenshot isn't the images we need to see. Pushing JPEGs much?

    dont you read my posts ? iso 4000 raw processed no adjustments. iso 100 pushed to reach the same brightness as the iso 4000 image. the difference is in the shadows. WB is also off shooting underexposed.

    Post the raw files. Simple.

    if you cant see the replicated results its not my problem. a6300 and a74

    test shot noise.jpg
    test shot 3.jpg
    test shot 2.jpg
    test 4.jpg

    test shot 2.jpg

    JPG, 1.3 MB, uploaded by DonaldB on April 28, 2023.

    test 4.jpg

    JPG, 2.2 MB, uploaded by DonaldB on April 28, 2023.

    test shot noise.jpg

    JPG, 1.6 MB, uploaded by DonaldB on April 28, 2023.

    test shot 3.jpg

    JPG, 1.8 MB, uploaded by DonaldB on April 28, 2023.

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    Robert1955
    Members 209 posts
    April 28, 2023, 12:18 p.m. April 28, 2023, 12:18 p.m.
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    @DonaldB has written:
    @Robert1955 has written:
    @DonaldB has written:
    @AlanSh has written:

    Please can you stop this sniping at each other. It just pisses the rest of us off.

    Alan

    pisses me off more, i post a simple image and expect questions and answers related to my image . not some primary school crap all the time. is it so god dam hard to have a sensible conversation on this site without all the garbage thrown in ?

    but your images are not that simple. The lightness difference is far smaller than you would expect with the ISO difference. So asking what processing was done is a fair question which could be answered by providing actual jpg's with complete exif

    can you not read ? iso 4000 raw processed no adjustments. iso 100 pushed to reach the same brightness as the iso 4000 image. the difference is in the shadows. WB is also off shooting underexposed.

    That does not tell me much about what you actually did in processing. Which slider is “push”?

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    IliahBorg
    Members 976 posts
    April 28, 2023, 12:25 p.m. April 28, 2023, 12:25 p.m.
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    @DonaldB has written:

    its not my problem

    Please explain what Bill is doing wrong:
    www.photonstophotos.net/Charts/PDR_Shadow.htm#Sony%20ILCE-7M4

    JimKasson likes this.

    favorite 1

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    IliahBorg
    Members 976 posts
    April 28, 2023, 12:27 p.m. April 28, 2023, 12:27 p.m.
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    @Robert1955 has written:

    That does not tell me much about what you actually did in processing. Which slider is “push”?

    It tells nothing at all as the raw files are not provided. IMHO best to ignore the screenshots.

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    MarshallG
    Members 141 posts
    April 28, 2023, 12:49 p.m. April 28, 2023, 12:49 p.m.
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    @bobn2 has written:
    @WolfsHead has written:

    We are fortunate to have some unquestioned experts in the field of digital imaging - but they shouldn’t be let anywhere near anything with ‘beginner’ in the title!

    Interesting point of view. You mean that beginners shouldn't have the opportunity to learn from people who actually know their stuff?

    As my uncle “Don” said… “You know too much.”

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    IliahBorg
    Members 976 posts
    April 28, 2023, 12:53 p.m. April 28, 2023, 12:53 p.m.
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    @MarshallG has written:
    @bobn2 has written:
    @WolfsHead has written:

    We are fortunate to have some unquestioned experts in the field of digital imaging - but they shouldn’t be let anywhere near anything with ‘beginner’ in the title!

    Interesting point of view. You mean that beginners shouldn't have the opportunity to learn from people who actually know their stuff?

    As my uncle “Don” said… “You know too much.”

    I'll take “You know too much” over "You know too little, and most of it wrong" :)

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    DonaldB
    Members 2365 posts
    April 28, 2023, 9:47 p.m. April 28, 2023, 9:47 p.m.
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    @IliahBorg has written:
    @DonaldB has written:

    its not my problem

    Please explain what Bill is doing wrong:
    www.photonstophotos.net/Charts/PDR_Shadow.htm#Sony%20ILCE-7M4

    bills graphs show that the a6300 has less read noise than the a74 , thats not what ive experienced.

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    SrMi
    Members 457 posts
    April 28, 2023, 9:58 p.m. April 28, 2023, 9:58 p.m.
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    @DonaldB has written:
    @IliahBorg has written:
    @DonaldB has written:

    its not my problem

    Please explain what Bill is doing wrong:
    www.photonstophotos.net/Charts/PDR_Shadow.htm#Sony%20ILCE-7M4

    bills graphs show that the a6300 has less read noise than the a74 , thats not what ive experienced.

    Why? How have you experienced read noise difference?

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    IliahBorg
    Members 976 posts
    April 28, 2023, 9:59 p.m. April 28, 2023, 9:59 p.m.
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    @DonaldB has written:
    @IliahBorg has written:
    @DonaldB has written:

    its not my problem

    Please explain what Bill is doing wrong:
    www.photonstophotos.net/Charts/PDR_Shadow.htm#Sony%20ILCE-7M4

    bills graphs show that the a6300 has less read noise than the a74 , thats not what ive experienced.

    I'm asking about www.photonstophotos.net/Charts/PDR_Shadow.htm#Sony%20ILCE-7M4 - specifically.
    Don't look at other graphs or comparisons, it's too early, you need to come to grips with fundamentals first.

    IanSForsyth likes this.

    favorite 1

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    DonaldB
    Members 2365 posts
    April 28, 2023, 10:11 p.m. April 28, 2023, 10:11 p.m.
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    @IliahBorg has written:
    @DonaldB has written:
    @IliahBorg has written:
    @DonaldB has written:

    its not my problem

    Please explain what Bill is doing wrong:
    www.photonstophotos.net/Charts/PDR_Shadow.htm#Sony%20ILCE-7M4

    bills graphs show that the a6300 has less read noise than the a74 , thats not what ive experienced.

    I'm asking about www.photonstophotos.net/Charts/PDR_Shadow.htm#Sony%20ILCE-7M4 - specifically.
    Don't look at other graphs or comparisons, it's too early, you need to come to grips with fundamentals first.

    all good i found the graph ,that i apparently couldnt the other night.

    [Screenshot 2023-04-29 080840.jpg]
    (/a/705krRdqxOkDmlVSJ2V9XcC87NNp9lKsPa4Ga1Pa5JVgFbhgYyYU1dOEuDt0TcVG/5882/?shva=1)

    Screenshot 2023-04-29 080733.jpg

    Screenshot 2023-04-29 080840.jpg

    JPG, 404.3 KB, uploaded by DonaldB on April 28, 2023.

    Screenshot 2023-04-29 080733.jpg

    JPG, 338.9 KB, uploaded by DonaldB on April 28, 2023.

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    JimKasson
    Members 1738 posts
    April 28, 2023, 10:17 p.m. April 28, 2023, 10:17 p.m.
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    @DonaldB has written:
    @IliahBorg has written:
    @DonaldB has written:
    @IliahBorg has written:
    @DonaldB has written:

    its not my problem

    Please explain what Bill is doing wrong:
    www.photonstophotos.net/Charts/PDR_Shadow.htm#Sony%20ILCE-7M4

    bills graphs show that the a6300 has less read noise than the a74 , thats not what ive experienced.

    I'm asking about www.photonstophotos.net/Charts/PDR_Shadow.htm#Sony%20ILCE-7M4 - specifically.
    Don't look at other graphs or comparisons, it's too early, you need to come to grips with fundamentals first.

    all good i found the graph ,that i apparently couldnt the other night.

    [Screenshot 2023-04-29 080840.jpg]
    (/a/705krRdqxOkDmlVSJ2V9XcC87NNp9lKsPa4Ga1Pa5JVgFbhgYyYU1dOEuDt0TcVG/5882/?shva=1)

    Screenshot 2023-04-29 080733.jpg

    Neither of those is corrected for resolution. That's not Bill's problem, but if you would apply the appropriate corrections it might explain what you're seeing in your images.

    Oh, never mind. Those two cameras have the same resolution.

    Also, are you sure you're looking at RN in your images and not shot noise? I think that's worth your looking at.

    Also, pay attention to the open symbols.

    IanSForsyth likes this.

    favorite 1

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    IliahBorg
    Members 976 posts
    April 28, 2023, 10:20 p.m. April 28, 2023, 10:20 p.m.
    link
    @DonaldB has written:
    @IliahBorg has written:
    @DonaldB has written:
    @IliahBorg has written:
    @DonaldB has written:

    its not my problem

    Please explain what Bill is doing wrong:
    www.photonstophotos.net/Charts/PDR_Shadow.htm#Sony%20ILCE-7M4

    bills graphs show that the a6300 has less read noise than the a74 , thats not what ive experienced.

    I'm asking about www.photonstophotos.net/Charts/PDR_Shadow.htm#Sony%20ILCE-7M4 - specifically.
    Don't look at other graphs or comparisons, it's too early, you need to come to grips with fundamentals first.

    all good i found the graph ,that i apparently couldnt the other night.

    [Screenshot 2023-04-29 080840.jpg]
    (/a/705krRdqxOkDmlVSJ2V9XcC87NNp9lKsPa4Ga1Pa5JVgFbhgYyYU1dOEuDt0TcVG/5882/?shva=1)

    Screenshot 2023-04-29 080733.jpg

    I'll repeat my question:

    @IliahBorg has written:

    Please explain what Bill is doing wrong:
    www.photonstophotos.net/Charts/PDR_Shadow.htm#Sony%20ILCE-7M4

    And post the raw files already.

  • link
    DonaldB
    Members 2365 posts
    April 28, 2023, 10:48 p.m. April 28, 2023, 10:48 p.m.
    link
    @JimKasson has written:
    @DonaldB has written:
    @IliahBorg has written:
    @DonaldB has written:
    @IliahBorg has written:
    @DonaldB has written:

    its not my problem

    Please explain what Bill is doing wrong:
    www.photonstophotos.net/Charts/PDR_Shadow.htm#Sony%20ILCE-7M4

    bills graphs show that the a6300 has less read noise than the a74 , thats not what ive experienced.

    I'm asking about www.photonstophotos.net/Charts/PDR_Shadow.htm#Sony%20ILCE-7M4 - specifically.
    Don't look at other graphs or comparisons, it's too early, you need to come to grips with fundamentals first.

    all good i found the graph ,that i apparently couldnt the other night.

    [Screenshot 2023-04-29 080840.jpg]
    (/a/705krRdqxOkDmlVSJ2V9XcC87NNp9lKsPa4Ga1Pa5JVgFbhgYyYU1dOEuDt0TcVG/5882/?shva=1)

    Screenshot 2023-04-29 080733.jpg

    Neither of those is corrected for resolution. That's not Bill's problem, but if you would apply the appropriate corrections it might explain what you're seeing in your images.

    Oh, never mind. Those two cameras have the same resolution.

    Also, are you sure you're looking at RN in your images and not shot noise? I think that's worth your looking at.

    Also, pay attention to the open symbols.

    i can shoot the a74 in crop mode it still produces a cleaner image, will do some tests toninght when its dark and i can stretch the DR to max.

  • link
    DonaldB
    Members 2365 posts
    April 28, 2023, 10:49 p.m. April 28, 2023, 10:49 p.m.
    link
    @IliahBorg has written:
    @DonaldB has written:
    @IliahBorg has written:
    @DonaldB has written:
    @IliahBorg has written:
    @DonaldB has written:

    its not my problem

    Please explain what Bill is doing wrong:
    www.photonstophotos.net/Charts/PDR_Shadow.htm#Sony%20ILCE-7M4

    bills graphs show that the a6300 has less read noise than the a74 , thats not what ive experienced.

    I'm asking about www.photonstophotos.net/Charts/PDR_Shadow.htm#Sony%20ILCE-7M4 - specifically.
    Don't look at other graphs or comparisons, it's too early, you need to come to grips with fundamentals first.

    all good i found the graph ,that i apparently couldnt the other night.

    [Screenshot 2023-04-29 080840.jpg]
    (/a/705krRdqxOkDmlVSJ2V9XcC87NNp9lKsPa4Ga1Pa5JVgFbhgYyYU1dOEuDt0TcVG/5882/?shva=1)

    Screenshot 2023-04-29 080733.jpg

    I'll repeat my question:

    @IliahBorg has written:

    Please explain what Bill is doing wrong:
    www.photonstophotos.net/Charts/PDR_Shadow.htm#Sony%20ILCE-7M4

    And post the raw files already.

    will post some raw links tonight when its dark so i can stretch the DR to max

  • link
    IliahBorg
    Members 976 posts
    April 29, 2023, 1:08 a.m. April 29, 2023, 1:08 a.m.
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    @DonaldB has written:

    will post some raw links tonight when its dark so i can stretch the DR to max

    No. These ones, from previous:
    dprevived.com/media/attachments/e8/5d/1jMe9EhrHCA4OoBQ5oWKI9zeaumQm1zgY5t2kCv7VJOj7I52EIafAuum0CcoZl4Z/test-shot-noise.jpg

    IanSForsyth likes this.

    favorite 1

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    DonaldB
    Members 2365 posts
    April 29, 2023, 2:07 a.m. April 29, 2023, 2:07 a.m.
    link
    @IliahBorg has written:
    @DonaldB has written:

    will post some raw links tonight when its dark so i can stretch the DR to max

    No. These ones, from previous:
    dprevived.com/media/attachments/e8/5d/1jMe9EhrHCA4OoBQ5oWKI9zeaumQm1zgY5t2kCv7VJOj7I52EIafAuum0CcoZl4Z/test-shot-noise.jpg

    just sent link via PM, please do not share but post your converted cropped images for discussion.

  • link
    IliahBorg
    Members 976 posts
    April 29, 2023, 2:04 p.m. April 29, 2023, 2:04 p.m.
    link
    @DonaldB has written:
    @IliahBorg has written:
    @DonaldB has written:

    will post some raw links tonight when its dark so i can stretch the DR to max

    No. These ones, from previous:
    dprevived.com/media/attachments/e8/5d/1jMe9EhrHCA4OoBQ5oWKI9zeaumQm1zgY5t2kCv7VJOj7I52EIafAuum0CcoZl4Z/test-shot-noise.jpg

    just sent link via PM, please do not share but post your converted cropped images for discussion.

    Facts and experiments are discussed publicly and in a fully transparent manner.
    I'm refusing to download the images that are the subject of discussion here if I can't share them.
    Limiting the discussion to converted crops is also unacceptable.

    CrashpcCZ, Robert1955 and IanSForsyth like this.

    favorite 3

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