Technical and Artistic Approaches

Your post brings up several points which strike close to home for me. My daughter is both an accomplished classical musician and an engineer. I have no doubt that women can and do succeed in the STEM areas. Sadly outside of medicine there just aren't that many women pursuing those careers and goals. They often fail to get support and encouragement in school and worse face a daily, uphill battle in workplaces that are almost entirely male.

Being assertive is another related issue. We did our best to raise our daughter to be confident and assertive. I don't think she has any difficulty debating technical considerations in her field. I have been lucky enough to work for a couple of women bosses in my technical field. All were assertive and took no guff.

Another point made is that even with the skills and with an assertive, goal oriented approach, many women fail to get appropriate recognition. Perhaps I am wrong but that seems to be changing, especially in photography. There have been quite a few women who are recognized as among the photography greats. Historically and even recently women have not received recognition in many of the arts. Hardly any of the recognized painters of the past centuries and even currently, have been women.

When it comes to this forum, I would certainly like to see less technology orientation, more artistic orientation and more women involved. I wonder what would be needed to change any of that.

techno-
word-forming element meaning "art, craft, skill," later "technical, technology," from Latinized form of Greek tekhno-, combining form of tekhnē "art, skill, craft in work; method, system, an art, a system or method of making or doing," from PIE teks-na- "craft" (of weaving or fabricating), from suffixed form of root teks- "to weave," also "to fabricate."

I think you are partially correct. We are trained out of creativity and spontaneity. Genuine artistic talent is, I think, a different matter.

Neither my mother nor my ex are/were the least bit artistic. My ex could follow a musical instruction set to play the accordion reasonably well, but she could not and would not create music on her own.

At a very young age I started drawing and painting with reasonable proficiency on my own. I am also self taught on the guitar and wrote my own music and lyrics. I also dabbled in poetry. I also learned after two years of arts study that I did not have the drive to spend years as a starving artist to maybe be able to make a living, so I turned to other pursuits to pay the bills.

I've also always been quite fascinated by technology which lead me to 15 years of technical sales and marketing and then a move over to the technical side.

In photography I am interested in how understanding the technical aspects can improve my artistry. Well, OK, I'm also fascinated by how we can pluck photons out of the air and turn them into recognizable images, but thats an intellectual pusuit.

I prefer this definition of Techno from Wikipedia. It's also a lot more fun:

*"Techno is a genre of electronic dance music[2] (EDM) which is generally produced for use in a continuous DJ set, with tempo often varying between 120 and 150 beats per minute (bpm). The central rhythm is typically in common time (4/4) and often characterized by a repetitive four on the floor beat.[3] Artists may use electronic instruments such as drum machines, sequencers, and synthesizers, as well as digital audio workstations. Drum machines from the 1980s such as Roland's TR-808 and TR-909 are highly prized, and software emulations of such retro instruments are popular." *

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Techno

It is true that the scientific fields (and most arts, as you point out) have been largely dominated by men, but this is changing. There have always been women who achieved in those fields, but now there are more, and the barriers are gradually being reduced though not removed. It is hard to overcome centuries of custom and culture. Women like your daughter are making it easier for the next generation to overcome those even more.

The statistics on numbers of photographers by gender is contradictory but most suggest it's a 50-50 split now, with some genres being skewed differently one way or another. If you look at photography forums, the majority (well more than half) of participating members are men. In technical debates, there is an even larger proportion of men. I've always been curious about the why's of this, but I don't think it's lack of assertiveness or ability. I suspect that in general, women are less attracted to argument as an enjoyable activity. Most of the women photographers I know on forums are more interested in the various art-related subjects and in sharing or discussing actual images, and they engage in technical talk mainly to solve a problem in their own work: a lens to do a certain thing, lighting for a certain purpose, paper suited for certain prints (or help someone else with their problem). There's always exceptions but that's what I've seen.

I too would welcome more topics on the artistic side. I'm all good with people having as many technical discussions as they want - the forum is new and it needs active discussions - but I do think we need more art-centric and image-centric discussions for balance.And I appreciate those of you (like you and Jim Kasson) who have launched interesting and thoughtful discussions along these lines.

“Keep your dog off of my lawn.”

Grumpy old man syndrome is a real thing, and... it could fill one hundred pages here !
Best not to go there. lol

I think that nearly everyone is born with the ability to create bad art.

Don

If you had worked much with kids you would likely have a different opinion. Even young children often produce remarkable and exciting work. It takes time and education to dull that.

The last piece my 11 year old granddaughter completed was exceptional. I keep thinking of presenting it to the critique group I belong to. I can almost hear the oohs and aahs.

I work hard at making art that I consider good. But I can tell you, through years of experience, I have demonstrated that I also have a great talent for creating bad art, which, in this case, means art that doesn't satisfy me.

AA once said that a dozen significant images a year was a good output for him. Think how many images he made in a typical year that didn't make the cut.

It is only bad art until someone likes it and it becomes a fad

Just to be a bit more specific, it's not the generalised men, it's the boys clubs many men create.