Some thoughts on the new facilites.

And there are several of us who are both grateful and understanding 👍

Alan, I thank you and everyone else for their unpaid work on this project.
Maybe it's time to talk about funding dprevived. I propose paid subscription

Hi,

Well, often times the simplest things morph into a complicated mess. So, no worries here, either. :)

Stan

Yes, multiple times until about 5 months ago in multiple PM's about a "landing page" with screenshots and more to Bob, Arvo and you. Title was "About the importance of a (photography website-) homepage…"
Bob agreed on the idea for an index page (landing page) with (a) regularly changing picture(s) on top of it.
Do I have to post the content to refresh your memory? Here underneath a screenshot of a small part out of those PM's. (*)
I understand that you don't like criticism, even if it is meant to contribute to make succeed this project.
Kindest regards,
Stany

• ()Screenshots of my proposal about a "landing page with pictures" from 5 months ago removed after request from Arvo.*

It seems to me that the problem here is not one solved by technical changes alone but by understanding how to generate and maintain conversations. … The active threads like “C&C” and ”Canon“ are basically built around a core group that has been together and conversed about photography, among other things, for years. These sites need a core group and leader who can generate and keep the group together. “Weekly Image … ” was such a thread which tried to adjust to the flat view here and could not adjust as no leader was required and the periodic request for participation was missing,. They are now back at DPR. C&C has lived with the inconvenience of the flat view and maintained the conversations on this site with a leader and periodic requests for participation. This to me is bit tribal and somewhat social networking. IMHO what kept many of the other forums on DPR active and grew the conversations were the manufacturers who continued to refresh the conversations by turning out new products every year.. As the manufacturers have slowed their production of new products I think the conversations over on DPR have also slowed …

For me, this site is a moderately active DPR forum. … with a couple active threads as was the “Olympus SLR Forum' back on DPR. To maintain what we have we need to keep those threads that already have a conversation going and to grow to find a way to generate new core groups that attract people to them .. I can observe and kibitz but cannot help here as I have tried several times to start such threads back at DPR and one went for years but never generated that core group … all died. …. Perhaps there is Sociologist among us that can help here ….

All of this may have been said and discussed before but this conversation has become so long that I lost it after the first three or four pages and have only read a few of the more recent thoughts ….

WhyNot

Unfortunately, meanwhile this forum is dead already, and that's a pity.

I think you are being immensely unfair to a group of people who with limited resources, are trying to make this site a success, even if the numbers are not as huge as expected when that forum refused to die as perhaps it should have done, now that I can see more clearly how bad the moderation was and probably is there.

Maybe try and participate in the contests, make a thread of general interest, or something else that helps this site become a pleasant vibrant place to post.

I think Why Not is 100% correct here about how to make forums work. It reflects why the C&C thread has been active for some 15 years. The C&C group is well aware of this and have analyzed why the thread has succeeded over this time. We don't intend to be tribal and we are more than happy to see other threads here being organized along the same lines. At the moment, we are working on other matters but we will be getting back to this.

There has not been anyone at the wheel of this bus for quite some time (for whatever reason) and that is the problem. And on top of all this-- people are discussing how to increase fares 😱 on this runaway bus. You can only do so much without a driver. No one has a clue where this is heading. Looking back , maybe this should have been a gearcentric life raft to get it populated and then grown it into what you wanted from that--instead of starting off as something weirdly vague and staying there for seven months. Alan-don't freak out- I'm not criticizing you. I know you're not the bus driver.

“I saw this in a movie about a bus that had to speed around the city, keeping its speed over fifty, and if its speed dropped, the bus would explode! I think it was called 'The Bus That Couldn't Slow Down'.”

I think it's fine (and even helpful) to offer some criticism, particularly in community-driven projects like this. But given your posts on this forum, I'm really curious, why you're still here, if you hate almost everything about this place anyway?

Interesting how you have turned criticism of a "community" forum into personal attacks. Have you ever given it any thought that you might be the same people everyone was glad to see leave and return to dpr? hmm? wishing and hoping really doesn't work here. I had asked alan(in one of those horrid 58 posts) where images are stored here and how does one delete them. "I don't know, I will ask" - was the reply . I figured I'd wait until they got their act together before I participate as I don't have a driving need to share pics like facebook. Simple joy--the movie was "speed" with sandra bullock, keanu reeves and dennis hopper.

]
Yes. I looked at a lot of the 58 posts, noting that most are negative. Two months ago he wrote: "I have not yet uploaded a pic to this site." I have not found any evidence of any being posted since.

So your question is highly relevant, Simplejoy. 😀

David
[/quote]

David -while you were looking up my posts did you happen to run across this one of yours from 18 days ago? Such negative criticism of this forum and even some ugly criticism of users here that post their "parochial" aka crappy photos? It was really classy the way you excused those with greater talents ........................................ " (No offense is meant to those whose imagination is above that level — we know who they are!)" David--Can you tell us exactly who they are so we can separate them from the underachievers posting"parochial" pics?

I'll place the David post below-----------------

Bob,

I have read your document several times and can find no reason to disagree with your proposals. I dont think any discusssion is necessary, unless anyone comes up with alternative proposals. Consequently, I urge implementation asap.

It concerns me that the user base is diminishing. (As I write, only nine threads have seen any activity in the past 24 hours!) This is our largest current problem, and I am not sure that the changes discussed for storage, organisation and display of photos will have any impact on that problem. There is something else missing that needs to be provided. News items and articles that will stimulate and help users to make more interesting photos and explore new subject material would be a good idea, and no doubt that is the tip of the iceberg. We need to be encouraged and challenged not to be so parochial in the photos we post. I believe that Instagram and Fakebook provide showcases for that. (No offense is meant to those whose imagination is above that level — we know who they are!)

We have managed to create and support a lively sub-group of Canon users. Why, for instance, is the Leica forum so moribund? Why are other fora similarly uninhabited? These questions, their answers and the solutions to the problems they represent are what we should be discussing — without navel gazing!

I apologize if I have attacked you personally! That was not my intention.

And yes, I have thought about the possibility of what you describe being the case... part of the downside of a project where everyone can pretty much say what they want without any old-school moderation interference, is that there is a risk of that happening from time to time and it has happened here and I've tried asking critical questions and voice my concerns whenever that has happened (for example with RetoB or raythentic or even in part with porky). For the most part I've concluded that it's not the same, but I get your worry and it's good to keep in mind.

That being said, being overly critical of the efforts here without any real contributions (to my knowledge), just doesn't make any sense, particularly when the big alternative is still around. But perhaps I've just read your criticism wrong and you're actually interested in this place having success - if so, I truly am sorry for that.

I still think that the driverless bus analogy (or any comment of that kind, when this has been discussed numerous times) doesn't help at the moment, while uploading and discussing your images, providing alternative solutions for a good landing page, name, logo, editorial content, thread or contest ideas etc. actually would!

In-Out-Back

I've read all the thread from the beginning.
Happy to see Bob back and recovering his normal life.

I speak for myself:
I didn't participate for several weeks/month
because I felt the effort I tried, to keep up the perpetual challenging posts, was not worth the effort,
because I got a skin irritation due to some people that were left freely breaking balls and that reflected on and tarnished Admins
because I've learned a lot here and can't feel I'm able to return enough, and that irritates me the most.*

• I offered economic support from day one.
  That was without any string, but it was refused,
  now I'm not able to offer it again.

Yes, a landing page is useful to attract new customers

BUT

Commercial laws tell you that:
you need 6 times the resources to win a New Customer than to keep an existing old Customer saying good and spreading the knowledge.

( Advertizing Company frown everytime it's mentioned )

Glad to see you!

I think you‘ve got a point there and several people here feel the same way.

That being said, it‘s also not completely fair to call it 'existing old customer' when most have in fact been 'customers on loan' who returned at the first chance to get back to the old establishment. I think at this point it‘s best to see this site as something new, even though that means additional challenges.

I personally hope you‘ll be part of it as well!