Re: A critique suggestion

An interesting sidestep.

I think this is a case of disputes between schools of thought. We know that artistic disputes are often very bitter.

Here is part of her biography, she was very much in line with a lot of western art.

Cameron was an educated and cultured woman; she was a Christian thinker familiar with medieval art, the Renaissance, and the Pre-Raphaelites.She may also have been influenced by the contemporary interest in phrenology, the study of the skull as a sign of a person's character. The Old Masters also informed her work. Her compositions and use of light have been connected to Raphael, Rembrandt, and Titian.

The Illustrated London News provided an alternative perspective, writing that her images were "the nearest approach to art, or rather the most bold and successful applications of the principles of fine-art to photography

All this is pretty normal in the history of the medium, where disputes between schools of thought have been countless.

She was certainly more visually literate, than the vast majority.

Being more visually or artistically more literate does not mean their opinion of an image is more valid than the opinion of someone less visually or artistically literate.

It just means their opinions are different, not better, more accurate or superior.

For example, whether anyone ("expert" or not) likes an image or not has no bearing at all on whether I like the image or not.

Everyone is entitled to critique images.

It's when people starting critiquing each other's critiques that conflicts arise.

Unfortunately, you have totally missed the points and even the subjects, of the conversations above. It might be useful to go and read the interventions by Mike, Andrew, Tom and myself, and try a bit harder to understand what we have written. Because you have totally misunderstood most of what we have written, unfortunately.

Sorry to be harsh.

If I have misunderstood what you said then which sentences of mine are you saying are not true?

The points you are making is that you believe some people's opinions (maybe even yours) of an image are more important, valid, accurate and superior to others.

I disagree with that as described earlier.

Photography students and aspiring professional photographers often pay more experienced photographers and art directors to critic their photographic portfolios. It is a pretty common activity in the photographic world.

Why is this?

Maybe you should follow your own advice and go back and read the points I have made because I answered that very question earlier this thread.

I went on to say that otherwise no-one is under any obligation to accept any judgements/opinions someone might try to impose on them.

Is this not correct?

Yes, It is nice, but tiring to be optimistic, and to hope your words have a positive impact. It was worth it for The Julia Margaret Cameron post by Tom, where a diversion to Wikipedia was enlightening.

Should I give up, as the pathway is getting a bit muddy?

That must be one of the most self revealing posts of all time. I've read your posts over years David, They show no growth whatsoever, apart from adding some new tech along the way. Like all arts, image appreciation is a journey. You need to build your experience and you need to be open to the experience of others. Images are the whole reason we take photos so building one's image literacy. Here's an article you might find useful. I hope you read it and think about it. I suspect you will get a lot more pleasure from your photography if you do. It's from the resources you will find listed on the web page of the Dprev site.
daily.jstor.org/how-to-look-at-art-and-understand-what-you-see/

Re your statements about "that's when conflicts arise." They only arise if you approach discussion from a "must win" perspective. You need to think about this too. Under a variety of names and at different sites you have approached forums in the same way. You are more interested in having an argument and massaging your ego than you are in discussion. You will answer as you always do that it takes two to tango. True. But how come then that the rest of us can have disagreements on points without it finishing up in "the dumpster" as yours do over and over with person after person? Either you know that your main aim is to have arguments and do the self ego massage thing or you really want to discuss photography. If when you do some honest self reflection, you find it is the latter, I suggest you start your own journey with the above article.
Re your previous post statement where you say it is untrue that you declined an offer from me to continue this conversation privately, you certainly did. You referred to my attempts to talk about how we look at images as "rambling." Remember now?
And do everyone a favour. If you decide to reply to this post, don't do what you usually do, which is take a section out of context, include all of this first so people, including yourself, can see what the actual discussion is.

It's getting muddy because it seems you and a few others are struggling to cope with people who have opinions differing to yours.

Of course you are entitled to your opinion, just like I and everyone is, but asking me questions that I already answered as shown in my previous post, indicates to me you are struggling to cope with my opinions.

We'll just have to agree to disagree on this one and move on because what I posted this thread is true, at least for me.

That is the approach you seem to be taking.

You are the op of several threads in the dumpster as well.

It is very easy for anyone to make things up and not provide links.

You're proving the points I made earlier.

What I have posted in this thread is true, at least for me.

You're being harsh on ncv and Mike.

Hopefully one day they will be able to cope with people who do not share their opinions.

Thank you for posting, as requested, your response with my complete previous statement.
Yes, I'll accept your statement that what you have posted is true at least for yourself.
Would you care to take up any of the other points? If not, fine.
A further thought. I'm not just exchanging views with Dan here, I think the article, found on the Dprev resources, I recommended to him is relevant to this thread and would be of value to many people here.

I also added some comments in between afterwards.

I have already taken up on the other points earlier this thread.

Which points are still outstanding?

As I said earlier to ncv, you are entitled to an opinion just like me and everyone.

So we'll just have to agree to disagree on this one.

I am sometimes reminded, why I ditched vinyl records for the shiny little CD, when they came out way back in the Eighties.

Sometimes a a bit of dirt would get fixed into the groove and the the needle would relatedly jump back the bars of the song I heard a few seconds before. This went on infinitely, until I tired of hearing the same bit of a song, over and over again.

Yeah, the same thing used to happen to me 🙂

You've lost me here Dan. What you seem to be saying is that someone's ignorance is just as valid as another's knowledge?

Visual literacy has nothing to do with your ability to see an image and form an opinion of it. Like all other forms of literacy it's about being able to form ideas and communicate them effectively, (though no formal educational requirement is really necessary). Something that doesn't seem to be happening here.