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Raw Histogram??

WhyNot
May 18, 2023
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  • link
    bobn2
    Team 2240 posts
    May 20, 2023, 9:26 p.m. May 20, 2023, 9:26 p.m.
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    @JimKasson has written:

    Does it relate to this?

    www.aghost.net/images/e0186601/ahistorylessonofrailroadtracks.pdf

    Quoted message:

    Since the chariots were made for Imperial Rome, they were all alike in
    the matter of wheel spacing. Therefore, the United States standard
    railroad gauge of 4 feet, 8.5 inches is derived from the original
    specifications for an Imperial Roman war chariot.
    In other words, bureaucracies live forever.

    Unfortunately not accurate. A better account here;
    garethdennis.medium.com/the-not-so-glamourous-origins-of-standard-track-gauge-2b5f1ae7e3bc

    It was actually George Stephenson (hence 'Stephenson gauge') being an engineer and solving the problem he had at the time.

    SrMi and JimKasson like this.

    favorite 2

  • link
    JimKasson
    Members 1738 posts
    May 20, 2023, 9:29 p.m. May 20, 2023, 9:29 p.m.
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    @bobn2 has written:
    @JimKasson has written:
    Quoted message:

    Since the chariots were made for Imperial Rome, they were all alike in
    the matter of wheel spacing. Therefore, the United States standard
    railroad gauge of 4 feet, 8.5 inches is derived from the original
    specifications for an Imperial Roman war chariot.
    In other words, bureaucracies live forever.

    Unfortunately not accurate. A better account here;
    garethdennis.medium.com/the-not-so-glamourous-origins-of-standard-track-gauge-2b5f1ae7e3bc

    It was actually George Stephenson (hence 'Stephenson gauge') being an engineer and solving the problem he had at the time.

    Thanks for that. I stand corrected. I'll fall back on QWERTY, though.

  • link
    bobn2
    Team 2240 posts
    May 20, 2023, 9:33 p.m. May 20, 2023, 9:33 p.m.
    link
    @JimKasson has written:
    @bobn2 has written:
    @JimKasson has written:
    Quoted message:

    Since the chariots were made for Imperial Rome, they were all alike in
    the matter of wheel spacing. Therefore, the United States standard
    railroad gauge of 4 feet, 8.5 inches is derived from the original
    specifications for an Imperial Roman war chariot.
    In other words, bureaucracies live forever.

    Unfortunately not accurate. A better account here;
    garethdennis.medium.com/the-not-so-glamourous-origins-of-standard-track-gauge-2b5f1ae7e3bc

    It was actually George Stephenson (hence 'Stephenson gauge') being an engineer and solving the problem he had at the time.

    Thanks for that. I stand corrected. I'll fall back on QWERTY, though.

    Ain't the Web great for misinformation?

    Deleted and JimKasson like this.

    favorite 2

  • link
    DonaldB
    Members 2365 posts
    May 20, 2023, 9:35 p.m. May 20, 2023, 9:35 p.m.
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    @JimKasson has written:
    @DonaldB has written:

    heres the file have a look how acurate it is.

    1drv.ms/i/s!ArStsPjQ301PmTlHwI95KJORXJX2?e=KYnuiP

    A7M01445-Full-7028x4688.png

    A7M01445-Full-7028x4688lin.png

    There are specular reflections in the image.

    sorry Jim here is the XZ1 posted the wrong link. the xz1 is 12 bit not 14 is how i picked up i posted the a74.

    1drv.ms/i/s!ArStsPjQ301PmUbgamkMYtyrG0ou?e=Tf8Wr1

  • link
    Deleted Removed user
    May 20, 2023, 9:40 p.m. May 20, 2023, 9:40 p.m.
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    @JimKasson has written:
    @xpatUSA has written:

    Yes, because was Kodak was once arguably a "bureaucracy" in the World of Photography, probably long before I.S.O.

    And then there's QWERTY.

    Jim. please stop. I'm too old and grumpy to be amused by one-line quips, however relevant, even though I do it myself. You know dam' well why I put periods in I.S.O.

    Coming back thus at everything I say in this thread lowers my credibility, I reckon. If that is your intent ... I'm done.

  • link
    JimKasson
    Members 1738 posts
    May 20, 2023, 9:43 p.m. May 20, 2023, 9:43 p.m.
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    @DonaldB has written:

    sorry Jim here is the XZ1 posted the wrong link.

    1drv.ms/i/s!ArStsPjQ301PmUbgamkMYtyrG0ou?e=Tf8Wr1

    P1016717-Full-3680x2760.png

    P1016717-Full-3680x2760lin.png

    P1016717-Full-3680x2760lin.png

    PNG, 92.3 KB, uploaded by JimKasson on May 20, 2023.

    P1016717-Full-3680x2760.png

    PNG, 99.5 KB, uploaded by JimKasson on May 20, 2023.

  • link
    JimKasson
    Members 1738 posts
    May 20, 2023, 9:45 p.m. May 20, 2023, 9:45 p.m.
    link
    @xpatUSA has written:

    Jim. please stop. I'm too old and grumpy to be amused by one-line quips, however relevant, even though I do it myself. You know dam' well why I put periods in I.S.O.

    Coming back thus at everything I say in this thread lowers my credibility, I reckon. If that is your intent ... I'm done.

    Easy, there. The QWERTY reference had nothing to do with the periods in ISO. It had to do with the persistence of technical decisions into eras where the original reasons no longer apply.

  • link
    IliahBorg
    Members 976 posts
    May 20, 2023, 9:51 p.m. May 20, 2023, 9:51 p.m.
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    @DonaldB has written:

    i havnt once taken several images with different exposures and chosen the correct image.

    You are missing the opportunity.

    Deleted and TonyBeach like this.

    favorite 2

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    bobn2
    Team 2240 posts
    May 20, 2023, 9:52 p.m. May 20, 2023, 9:52 p.m.
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    @xpatUSA has written:

    You know dam' well why I put periods in I.S.O.

    But it's I.O.S.

    SrMi likes this.

    favorite 1

  • link
    DonaldB
    Members 2365 posts
    May 20, 2023, 9:55 p.m. May 20, 2023, 9:55 p.m.
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    @IliahBorg has written:
    @DonaldB has written:

    i havnt once taken several images with different exposures and chosen the correct image.

    You are missing the opportunity.

    that would only confuse me more 😁id be posting the wrong images left right and center if i did that 🙄

  • link
    JimKasson
    Members 1738 posts
    May 20, 2023, 10:07 p.m. May 20, 2023, 10:07 p.m.
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    @JimKasson has written:
    @DonaldB has written:

    sorry Jim here is the XZ1 posted the wrong link.

    1drv.ms/i/s!ArStsPjQ301PmUbgamkMYtyrG0ou?e=Tf8Wr1

    P1016717-Full-3680x2760.png

    P1016717-Full-3680x2760lin.png

    image.png

    The back of camera histogram has the red channel hotter than the green. But in the raw file, the red channel is significantly down from the green channels. So is the blue raw channel, which looks on the back of camera image to be close to the green.

    image.png

    PNG, 2.4 MB, uploaded by JimKasson on May 20, 2023.

  • link
    IliahBorg
    Members 976 posts
    May 20, 2023, 10:10 p.m. May 20, 2023, 10:10 p.m.
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    @DonaldB has written:

    that would only confuse me

    Here is the histogram of the highlights:
    Screenshot from 2023-05-20 18-01-00.png
    - all channels are clipped in raw
    - there are specular reflections
    In-camera histograms didn't tell you that.
    This may be irrelevant for the purpose of this shot, but it isn't universally irrelevant, far from it.
    Have you checked what's going with red flowers?

    Screenshot from 2023-05-20 18-01-00.png

    PNG, 79.2 KB, uploaded by IliahBorg on May 20, 2023.

    TonyBeach and JimKasson like this.

    favorite 2

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    DonaldB
    Members 2365 posts
    May 20, 2023, 11:14 p.m. May 20, 2023, 11:14 p.m.
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    @IliahBorg has written:

    all channels are clipped in raw

    of cause they are thats what makes white. and thats why i just clip the whites so everyone can see a clipping measurement. if i didnt want to clip anything
    i would set 1/3 stop less exposure. but its its not part of the experiment.

  • link
    IliahBorg
    Members 976 posts
    May 20, 2023, 11:19 p.m. May 20, 2023, 11:19 p.m.
    link
    @DonaldB has written:
    @IliahBorg has written:

    all channels are clipped in raw

    of cause they are thats what makes white

    No-no-no...
    White in raw is not R=G=B. R=G=B on white is only true after the correct white balance is applied to raw data, and that happens in raw conversion.
    BTW I doubt 1/3 would save the day.

    TonyBeach, SrMi, ggbutcher and 2 other users like this.

    favorite 5

  • link
    DonaldB
    Members 2365 posts
    May 21, 2023, 12:45 a.m. May 21, 2023, 12:45 a.m.
    link
    @IliahBorg has written:
    @DonaldB has written:
    @IliahBorg has written:

    all channels are clipped in raw

    of cause they are thats what makes white

    No-no-no...
    White in raw is not R=G=B. R=G=B on white is only true after the correct white balance is applied to raw data, and that happens in raw conversion.
    BTW I doubt 1/3 would save the day.

    1drv.ms/f/s!ArStsPjQ301PmUrpCPpYDvWYg8LR?e=n4DQhg

  • link
    IliahBorg
    Members 976 posts
    May 21, 2023, 1:12 a.m. May 21, 2023, 1:12 a.m.
    link
    @DonaldB has written:
    @IliahBorg has written:
    @DonaldB has written:
    @IliahBorg has written:

    all channels are clipped in raw

    of cause they are thats what makes white

    No-no-no...
    White in raw is not R=G=B. R=G=B on white is only true after the correct white balance is applied to raw data, and that happens in raw conversion.
    BTW I doubt 1/3 would save the day.

    from P1016721, clipped in all 4 channels, here is one of the greens:
    Screenshot from 2023-05-20 21-07-58.png

    Screenshot from 2023-05-20 21-07-58.png

    PNG, 7.8 KB, uploaded by IliahBorg on May 21, 2023.

  • link
    DanHasLeftForum
    Members 4254 posts
    May 21, 2023, 1:17 a.m. May 21, 2023, 1:17 a.m.
    link
    @DonaldB has written:
    @IliahBorg has written:

    all channels are clipped in raw

    of cause they are thats what makes white. and thats why i just clip the whites so everyone can see a clipping measurement. if i didnt want to clip anything
    i would set 1/3 stop less exposure. but its its not part of the experiment.

    No that is not correct at all.

    If you fill the camera's frame with a near black object containing no whites at all you can still get clipping in the raw data if you leave the shutter open for long enough.

    It is the demosaicing of the raw data and application of white balance plus whatever other number crunching is applied during the raw conversion into an rgb image that sets what is white.

    While the shutter is open, the sensor's pixels are just collecting photons of light from the scene without knowing what the colours in the scene actually are. There could very well be no white in the scene at all and the raw data could still be clipped.

  • link
    DonaldB
    Members 2365 posts
    May 21, 2023, 1:17 a.m. May 21, 2023, 1:17 a.m.
    link
    @IliahBorg has written:
    @DonaldB has written:
    @IliahBorg has written:
    @DonaldB has written:
    @IliahBorg has written:

    all channels are clipped in raw

    of cause they are thats what makes white

    No-no-no...
    White in raw is not R=G=B. R=G=B on white is only true after the correct white balance is applied to raw data, and that happens in raw conversion.
    BTW I doubt 1/3 would save the day.

    from P1016721, clipped in all 4 channels, here is one of the greens:
    Screenshot from 2023-05-20 21-07-58.png

    Yeh on a tiny part of the shiny peice of ribbon.

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