Nikon Z AF

I decided to rejoin here to chime on this topic. Firstly, anyone that disagrees with @AnotherMike is likely to be on sticky ground technically. Secondly, I'm going to stick my head above the parapet with regards to Nikon Z6/7/II in the studio. That might get me shot down because unfortunately I'm only a photographer, not a techie. So, apologies if I get anything technically wrong.

Anyhow:

I'm a fan of the Z system and was invested in it heavily until earlier this year. For professional work my needs changed last year and reluctantly I switched to Sony. I needed a matching pair of stacked sensor cameras and a pair of "like new" A9II bodies with warranty was less than a single Z9. Bulk and weight was a massive part of my decision too. Wearing a pair of A9II's all day is akin to a single Z9. But I digress.

This choice was simply down to my changed needs for minimising rolling shutter and flicker banding whilst having to shoot silent shutter on film sets. AF and the like didn't factor into my decision (although I was aware of the reputation of Sony for being ahead on the AF front).

I mention all this because I don't want to come across as a troll or be accused of being one. I like Nikon!

1. Anyhow, in the studio I could make the Z6II and Z7II work, but would have to overshoot as my keeper rate was perhaps 70% on average.
2. If the light was good in the studio with high key lighting I could make eye detect work in wide area large, subject to using the joystick to put the focus box on the face.
3. If doing low key (think moody lighting of grizzly old faces) then even single point would struggle.
4. Why should anyone be surprised at this?
5. With a dSLR you'd be focussing wide open, regardless of aperture.
6. With a Z6/7II you are focussing at the chosen aperture down to f5.6. Wasting all the light from your faster lens.
7. The classic studio apertures are f8 through to f11 for sufficient dof.
8. Some have asked on this thread why stop down so much?
9. With respect those folk don't shoot studio, or if they do they accept eyes in focus with tip of nose and ears OOF.
10. So, In summary, say you are shooting with an 85mm f1.4 lens at f11 for dof.
11. With a D850 you will focus at f1.4 and shoot at f11. With a Nikon Z6/7 you will FOCUS AT f5.6
12. How many stops of light is the sensor being denied for AF purposes here? Let that sink in......

Anyway, back to Sony. On my A9II's there is an AF mode called "Aperture Drive AF". It's frankly game changing for studio and low light photographers.

When this mode is changed from "Standard" to "Focus Priority" your lens now focusses wide open, including third party lenses.

To put that in perspective. If I was shooting in the studio with my A9II and Sigma 85mm f1.4 DG DN and my mate was standing next to me with his Nikon Z6II and 85mm f1.2. If we both needed f11 for dof for the same shot he would be focusing at f5.6 and I'd be focusing at f1.4.

Can you guess which system would gather more light to assist the AF??

It really is as simple as that.

Maybe it could be fixed in firmware. Maybe Nikon is becoming the de facto BIF brand instead? I dunno.....

I think it's 5.6 if you shoot at f11...

Oops yes you are right, I will edit my post. But the Sony guy will be at 1.4 not 5.6.....

Nikon renamed low light AF on Z 7 II to starlight view on Z 9. Essentially it does the same thing - boosts the brightness of the viewfinder and invokes contrast detection step in focusing

Err, we were talking about Z6/7 series not Z9. Also, I'm not talking about "apply setting to live view" which does not alter the aperture used for focus on Z6/7 series cameras. On a Z6/7 series you will focus at f5.6 if using studio apertures of f8 to f11. Imagine the waste of money on the 50mm f1.2 lol!

With Sony you can use your f1.2 or f1.4 lens at studio aperture of f8 or f11 AND STILL use wide open light gathering for AF

He defends the undefendable. Like the D800 left AF issue. I had a very early (April 1 2012) D800. It did not have the left AF issue. However, I bought a used D800e and I received two original bill of sales. The one I bought was a replacement for another one. So I received the bill of sale for what the seller originally bought, as well as the bill of sale for the one I bought from him, showing that the first body had been replaced by the second body for the left AF issues. Both invoices were from Henry's, Canada's largest photography chain. I think it's safe to assume that $4000 or so camera bodies weren't replaced on a whim.

There was also the screwy AF issues I have old PMs from a couple of members who had their bodies back to Nikon 3 or 4 times without the issues being fixed. And in later years, many threads detailing the issues on DPReview.

It's likely Len gets paid for his efforts. It would seem ridiculous that someone would put in that much time, thousands and thousands of posts, without some remuneration.

And all in damage control mode.

Leonard had about 30,000 posts at the other place. All defending Nikon and Nikon can do no wrong. Or operator error. But he never posted a single photograph to back up his lectures IIRC. It's safe to say he was either in the pay of Nikon (or an idiot if he wasn't).

Either way, he's got no credibility whatsoever to anyone with half a brain cell.

Starlight View's refresh rate drop is the reason it can focus in much lower light than the z7 because the z7 remains stuck in 60fps feed on the LV. The z9 drops the refresh rate and hence collects more light for the af system to use. This is the difference.

Yes they've done that to combat focus shift. I personally dislike it but that's how they have done it.

I’ve not shot a Z9 but maybe that’s a good solution. I love that I can shoot my A9II’s in the studio at f11 but gather light at f1.4 to put a huge amount of light on the sensor for AF. When you think about it, it’s a perfect and sensible solution. Almost like having a camera that’s designed for, err, photographers.

Tell me about it. The z lenses have less focus shift anyway so it seems odd they were so insistent on this. It should be customised in the menus. But they've not allowed that either. D'oh! If only a big youtuber would do a video on it; then they'd listen.

@Sagittarius I just recently acquired the Z7-II, haven't had a chance to work with it in the studio. Next possible time is about a month away.
As for F/9, it provides the DOF I need for full length dance shots, full length fashion, half body fashion or portraiture. F/4, where I'm sure the AF would have an easier day, does not.

Yea, that's precisely what is needed. I should have some control over the focusing aperture. I'm lucky that I have a D850 and an excellent lens kit for it, although man, I love, just love some of the S line glass. So I don't have to rely on the Z bodies to make things work. But without question, if I had to, I'd have no choice but to add a Sony or Canon solution to the kit if I found they handled what I do (studio wise) better in terms of AF, and from what you report, it seems the Sony does.

Like I said, I don’t want to sound like a troll, I like Nikon and the Z system. But, now having a few months with Sony, I have to say they have systems that are far more attuned to practical day to day photography for the like of folk like me. photojournalists, wedding photographers, studio photographers and the like. Nikon now seems to be aiming for BIF photographers and the like……

Sony's newer bodies do. It is called aperture drive if I am not mistaken. It basically allows you to choose how camera will work with lens for focusing. It can use aperture set or it can make aperture go to wide open.

They need to make a menu setting. Focus at widest aperture on / off. A firmware fix I would hope.

I don’t know about Canon (or the Z9 for that matter) but you can certainly do this with any Sony circa 2018 onwards. It’s really attuned towards photographers frankly. My big concern was giving up the Z lenses. But boy, the GM2 versions of the 24-70mm and 70-200mm 2.8’s easily equal the Nikkor Z equivalents at a fraction of the size and weight. I also added the 20mm 1.8G, 35mm 1.4GM and Sigma 85mm 1.4 DG DN. I’d be hard pushed to better those lenses in Z mount. To be balanced I miss the 14-30mm Z and that’s about it.

Yes that’s exactly it. My A9II’s from 2019 do this, and any Sony body since.

Nice to see that we’re getting somewhere in this discussion now. Finally some level headed constructive analysis/criticism with a plausible explanation of root cause of poorer studio performance with Z’s. You would think that Nikon could add a feature like the Sony Aperture Drive via a firmware update, unless of course it is Sony’s own IP?