• Members 217 posts
    March 28, 2023, 9:11 p.m.

    The main body of what you are saying is fine, granted.
    However -

    • Personal attacks are calling someone naive these days? Have we become that thin skinned? What if the poster goes on to explain why they are being naive: and makes a very valid point in doing so? What if they are actually being naive? What if someone wrote here that they believe fairies will carry them up to heaven? Personally I'd call that naive but hey, live and let live. We need to be very careful about censoring certain words. Dpreview got plenty North Korea for most of us to last a lifetime.
  • March 28, 2023, 9:15 p.m.

    I have seen a lot of social network Stuff.
    Some strict moderated and some complete without and everything in between.
    Yes some people may go bonkers on some topics and some threads will become unreadable.

    But you should not underrate a good community.
    Some threads may regulate themselves.
    If things get overload we could tighten up later on.
    We will see quite easily if things get to messy.
    But if the user stop to post new content and looses interest because of being to strict will never will find out.

    A part of that I can thing a some features to cool things down if needed.

  • March 28, 2023, 9:17 p.m.

    Bill has made some really good points. Primeshooter has made a subtle amendment to one of them - which is also good.

    What we may be able to do is work on a 'moderator user guide' which will be used by moderators - but available to all. And this is a very good start. If I get some time over the next few days, I'd be happy to make a start on that.

    Alan

  • March 28, 2023, 9:22 p.m.

    There's a thought by some that we should have a mission statement. That looks to me very like one.

  • Members 118 posts
    March 28, 2023, 10:16 p.m.

    There are ways to criticize ideas, statements, thoughts, etc. constructively while avoiding putting unwanted labels on the person communicating those ideas. There's a world of difference between "I think there may be some context you are missing, have you considered X" and "You are naive for believing this and I can objectively prove how naive you are because you didn't account for Y".

    I try to follow the THINK before posting guideline. Is the posting:
    True?
    Helpful?
    Inspiring?
    Necessary/New?
    Kind?

    I sometimes fail, but it's a good starting point for more positive interactions.

  • March 28, 2023, 10:32 p.m.

    Forums either need to be self moderating or need a moderator. Otherwise there will be excess and extremes.

    I for one prefer to see a moderator's presence in a forum - contributing (some forums have non-contributing mods which I find very unsettling and quite frankly, lazy).

    So if you deem a potential mod to be of good standing, knowledge and has some 'people skills', yes I'd give the ok ...otherwise you'll be the mod for all the forums (as even if you allow the forums to be self-moderating you'll still need to be looking in).

    I'd say one recommendation is that mods should be positively involved in their forums (giving advice etc), not just sitting back waiting to slap wrists.

    One basic way to ensure this, is that the mod in each forum runs a weekly photo thread (and contributes to it). This works.

  • Members 435 posts
    March 28, 2023, 10:39 p.m.

    A hidden moderators forum with the permissions where a post can be sent or copied to for the mods to discuss the post and the actions required. From there it can be deleted, amended, or locked. Sometimes it may just be sent back or left in place, that's up to the mods and admin to work out.

    In 23 years at DPR I can only think of one particular forum that needs a more strict, hard type of moderation and no, I won't say which one.

    Danny.

  • Members 217 posts
    March 28, 2023, 10:54 p.m.

    Athena, I think we are splitting hairs. There is nothing wrong with telling someone "look I think you are being a little naive here". Especially if you have tried all that you have suggested.

    The world needs to get over this offence culture nonsense. Sometimes you just gotta take it on the chin, move on and not loose your mind over something someone wrote on the internet. There is nothing wrong with a little heated discussion. It makes it a hell of a lot more interesting than this cancel culture we have adopted, almost planet wide at the moment.

  • Members 4254 posts
    March 28, 2023, 10:59 p.m.

    Yes that was me who used the rehabilitate and in my post I had it enclosed in quotes, "rehabilitate". I would hope that showed I didn't mean the literal meaning of the word. By "rehabilitate" I meant as to make it clear to members where/how they have strayed in order to hopefully make them think about their behaviour for the future.
    Of course forums like this are not a court of law but I feel that clear checks and balances need to be in place for at least the levels of ordinary members and moderators.
    Having Admin keeping oversight on the moderators is essential imo to help establish and maintain fair and just moderation of forums.

  • Members 4254 posts
    March 28, 2023, 11 p.m.

    Yes that was me who used the word rehabilitate and in my post I had it enclosed in quotes, "rehabilitate". I would hope that showed I didn't mean the literal meaning of the word. By "rehabilitate" I meant as to make it clear to members where/how they have strayed in order to hopefully make them think about their behaviour for the future.
    Of course forums like this are not a court of law but I feel that clear checks and balances need to be in place for at least the levels of ordinary members and moderators.

  • Members 217 posts
    March 28, 2023, 11:18 p.m.

    I understand what you meant but I repeat...Moderation should be a hands off approach. A huge...less is more situation.

  • Members 4254 posts
    March 28, 2023, 11:21 p.m.

    To be honest, reading through this thread I am a little surprised, but not totally, at the very bad experiences some have had with moderators over at DPR. I posted my experiences earlier this thread.

    In any case, reading through this thread I feel it will be essential for Admin to have and maintain oversight on the moderators to help establish and maintain fair and just moderation of forums.

    That is another reason I why I feel Admin are the best people for any appeals against moderator actions.

    On another note, I don't know if DPR had it in place, after repeat warnings maybe multiple lengths of bans could be an option for repeat offenders or to give normally good and polite members who "flew off the handle" in a totally unacceptable way on the spur of the moment an opportunity to cool off.

    For example:
    3 day ban
    7 day ban
    14 day ban
    Permanent ban

    Obviously common sense would need to be exercised when handing out bans.

  • Members 217 posts
    March 28, 2023, 11:30 p.m.

    Just to play devil's advocate though...what really is the point in a permanent ban? The user can just make another account. Okay they loose a username they like or whatever. So?

  • Members 4254 posts
    March 28, 2023, 11:38 p.m.

    Yes that is true. If they come back and choose to behave appropriately then that is totally fine. If they keep offending then keep banning them, which is quick and simple for the mods and/or Admin, and make them jump through the hoops, albeit not very onerous ones, of changing email and username.

    A very wise man once said "Let he who is without sin cast the first stone", so everyone deserves an opportunity to come back and change their behaviour in a positive way.

  • Members 399 posts
    March 28, 2023, 11:49 p.m.

    One of the issues with the Internet is it is perceived to be the "Wild West" by some. You add anonymity and that the more subtle forms of communications such as expression, body language adds more issues for civil behavior on the Internet, be it Facebook, Tweeter, etc., on on a photography forum. Satire and sarcasm often don't translate in a multilingual environment while it is often a value form of communication.

    Seems to me the first things that needs to be established is a "code of conduct." Such a code of conduct should be easily understood and state what is expected based on mutual respect and common courtesy. Such a code should be unambiguous and clear. DPR Rule 1 - Be Nice - is not unambiguous nor clear. Of course mods are needed. However, mod need a set of standards and rules to execute their function. There actions should be based on a well established code of conduct and guidelines and not their whim. Seemed to me on DPR - too often people didn't really understand the rules and code of conduct. Too often discussions evolved into "food fights even with flying personal insults" - leaving mods with little option other than locking threads and taking other actions.

    The first step is to develop a code of conduct for the mods to use in their moderation. After that a structure for reasonable and consistent moderation should be developed so it is uniform. "An appellate "court" seems to be a bit too much as if an offender is banded - there is little way to keep them coming back under a different name.

  • Members 878 posts
    March 29, 2023, 12:04 a.m.

    Oh, no, please no fact checkers here.

  • Members 516 posts
    March 29, 2023, 12:29 a.m.

    Agreed, moderators should not be getting involved in whether a thread is factually correct or not.
    Anyone flagging a posting because of this should be shot at dawn.

    Anyway… moderators will be far too busy looking for bubblegum stuck under chairs. lol

  • Members 2365 posts
    March 29, 2023, 3:09 a.m.

    Hi Nigel.
    glad your using your old user name like me without being stalked and put on permanent moderation. i can totally agree with all your post, as you know I got the same response's from not only the mods but DPR staff, telling me to delete my gallery ( 700 images) and change my name so the mods wouldn't stalk me, the only problem was when i posted an extreme macro or a dance image i would be placed on moderation without even posting a comment LOL. same as you i was never rude to any member just posted my thoughts on equipment that i owned and lots of my favorite images. I will never forget posting an image in Portrait Forum in response to a post and getting a ban because Quote from mod mako2011 " i was belittling the op " ;-) ) that was enough for me and the portrait forum went from a vibrant social site to no one even posting there any more he single handed ruined the forum.

    Don