• May 3, 2023, 4:48 p.m.

    Observations rather than 'facts', I'd think, and rarely are they 'explained' - just predicted. If a model's prediction fits with repeatable observations, then it gets adopted. Then along come some more observations which it doesn't predict. Have the 'facts' changed? No. Is the model 'wrong'? No, it just doesn't fit everything. We don't have a scientific model that doesn't run out of steam somewhere.

    It's a repeatable observation - something different from a fact. And of course, the Earth isn't spherical in shape - the spherical model works well for many things, but not for everything. It's a philosophical point maybe - and not to be used to argue against observable, empirical 'facts' in less abstruse areas of endeavour.

  • Members 861 posts
    May 3, 2023, 5:05 p.m.

    Not that anyone cares what my opinions are, but I like the rules of baseball. Three strikes and you're out. Sometimes honest conversations get heated and people need to cool off. It happens to the best of us. Learn and let it go, or risk not needing to be told again.

    Of course, if you purposely hit someone with a ball, immediately you are ejected. I'd leave it up to a mod to make such a call but generally things like racism, bigotry, violent threats, etc, really don't have much of a place in a forum about photography outside of maybe some discussion of images themselves, but not towards other users.

  • Members 5 posts
    May 3, 2023, 5:16 p.m.

    I've run an online community since the late nineties. It's certainly presented increasing challenges over the years.

    There are problems with gatekeeping. Do you gatekeep in advance so that nobody can get in, or gatekeep after based on the opinion of a small set of moderator values? Bearing in mind that all power corrupts.

    I encourage my community to set it's own standards, with tolerance at the forefront of it's values. If there is an issue to address, in veracity, tone, or behavior, take the time to address that through polite argument.

    Take the responsibility to help create the community that you wish to be a part of. Don't leave it to others to impose it on you. A community is always better collaboratively setting it's values, embraced with the consent of it's members.

    People are wrong all the time. I know that I am. This is rarely bad faith, but often an opportunity to expand understanding, and share a different perspective.... if people are prepared to tolerantly help, rather than stand by.

    Think well of others, and yourself, and build something everyone can be proud to be a part of.

  • Members 516 posts
  • Members 30 posts
    May 3, 2023, 5:23 p.m.

    Well, historically, some facts have been proven not to be in true. Alternative facts are interpretations, not facts.

  • Members 143 posts
    May 3, 2023, 7:59 p.m.

    Instigating hostility and expressing hostility are two different things. I can express something in a non-hostile way to bait other users into directing hostility at me. Even though they are the ones who express the hostility, they are not the trolls, I am the troll.

  • May 3, 2023, 8:01 p.m.

    Which is exactly how the most skilled DPReview trolls would work. Needle some poor sap in an apparently harmless way, when eventually the sap reacts, hit the 'complain' button and get them banned.

  • Members 284 posts
    May 3, 2023, 9:34 p.m.

    That is how I got my ban... (previous to the "other" ban) a guy was opening threads with pretty incendiary claims and my mistake was asking if he was "trolling". The pure mention of the T word put me on the freezer and he continue operating as usual!

  • Members 435 posts
    May 3, 2023, 9:54 p.m.

    Yes I've seen it done to an innocent person on DPR by another person who had multiple accounts. Many multiple accounts!

  • Members 549 posts
    May 4, 2023, 3:05 p.m.

    I've only been banned once from DPReview, for a week. It was after the Canon 5D2 came out and I bought one; I was talking about how disappointing the fat horizontal banding noise was in the deep shadows, and how this fact contradicted Canon's claims about a new standard for DR in the camera, and one poster kept saying that it had no effect on real photography, and he seemed to pop up everywhere I mentioned the issue, making derogatory statements about my motives, and eventually I lost my patience with him and called his obsession with me "pathological", and within a couple of hours, I was temporarily banned. He was not banned, of course, and I assumed at the time that he had a bond with a mod and asked the mod to do it.

  • Members 861 posts
    May 4, 2023, 5:23 p.m.

    One bad apple spoils the bunch and whatnot. Do you let people in who put the n-word in their user name, or do they get a fair chance to prove what their first choice has already established? Gatekeeping in advance keeps out the exceptionally stupid people who will only contribute problems.

    No idea is without flaws, exceptions, or challenges. However, trusting people to be good has continuously proven to be disastrous on scales large and small. I'll take people being pissy they can't post on an internet forum vs a mob terrorizing a grieving parent any day of the week. Don't wish that sorta terrorism on anyone except for one very specific person.

    As the modern age keeps creeping forward, you're gonna find more and more connections to bad acts and bad actors, in channels with little to no moderation, over and over again, because that's human nature seemingly, unfortunately.

  • Members 878 posts
    May 4, 2023, 7:21 p.m.

    How often did that happen at dpreview?

  • Members 83 posts
    May 4, 2023, 11:17 p.m.

    Well, thanks for that unfortunate image I now have in my head...

  • Members 549 posts
    May 4, 2023, 11:32 p.m.

    Glad to provide the Rorschach for you.

  • Members 457 posts
    May 5, 2023, 12:31 a.m.
  • Members 15 posts
    May 5, 2023, 12:32 a.m.

    The world is actually a very unpleasant place and you cannot alter that fact by only frequenting sanitised sites. That leads to a sense of false security.

  • Members 143 posts
    May 5, 2023, 1:56 a.m.

    Get off your high horse. You seriously think that people here don't know that there is unpleasantness in the world? Did you actually think that you need to educate us all on that? Then you should already know that 4chan isn't representative of the world, and neither is this forum.

    You warn us that any sort of moderation would mean no more "honest comments". All forumers will be afflicted by "group think". It will make the forum "sanitized". Everyone will have a "false sense of security". The only insecurity I see in this thread is coming from you. We don't need your superiority complex or your hysterics.

  • Members 758 posts
    May 5, 2023, 2:11 a.m.

    Yeah, all those murders that go on every day all over the world. May as well let the murderers roam free, and let the general population get used to the fact there's going to be blood, so best not get too complacent about things. Absolutely.