Thats very poor on canons behalf .as i said live zebras finely tuned are un beatable for perfect "exposure evaluation" raw digger is not an exposure evaluation tool. in fact its useless in the field.
Thats very poor on canons behalf .as i said live zebras finely tuned are un beatable for perfect "exposure evaluation" raw digger is not an exposure evaluation tool. in fact its useless in the field.
You realize the meaning of the word "perfect", right?
A1 a74 a7r5 use the latest processors. not sure about the a7s3
@DonaldB has written:live zebras finely tuned are un beatable for perfect "exposure evaluation"
You realize the meaning of the word "perfect", right?
i always remember sitting for a 4 hour celestial navigation exam and walking out in 90 mins. the next week i got my results 99% the teacher said i got 100% but no one is perfect.
Unfortunately there's no camera that shows a raw histogram as far as I know.
Does it matter ? that would be like saying an analogue multimeter is better than a digital because its measuring the raw voltage.
Jim, I just started to read your article and I got to this bit:
The standard deviation of the electrons is also the root mean square (RMS) measure of the noise. Reducing the above to an equation:
RMS noise = Number of electrons countedBut the equation does not say what the text is. The text says "The standard deviation of the electrons is also the root mean square (RMS) measure of the noise."
But that is not the number of electrons counted. or is it? If it is, how is the standard deviation of the electrons= the number of electrons counted? I am confusedAlan
Once one enters the quantum world - our concept of continuum is no longer completely accurate. Both photons and electrons are particles and while exposure in lux-seconds can be viewed as the energy of the incident wave - its statistics are a quantized version of that in that the number of photons incident. Such processes are described statistically as a Poisson process which describes the arrival of objects, be in cars at an intersection, rain in a rain gauge or photons on a photodetector. en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shot_noise
@AlanSh has written:Jim, I just started to read your article and I got to this bit:
The standard deviation of the electrons is also the root mean square (RMS) measure of the noise. Reducing the above to an equation:
RMS noise = Number of electrons countedBut the equation does not say what the text is. The text says "The standard deviation of the electrons is also the root mean square (RMS) measure of the noise."
But that is not the number of electrons counted. or is it? If it is, how is the standard deviation of the electrons= the number of electrons counted? I am confusedAlan
Once one enters the quantum world - our concept of continuum is no longer completely accurate. Both photons and electrons are particles and while exposure in lux-seconds can be viewed as the energy of the incident wave - its statistics are a quantized version of that in that the number of photons incident. Such processes are described statistically as a Poisson process which describes the arrival of objects, be in cars at an intersection, rain in a rain gauge or photons on a photodetector. en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shot_noise
Yes. the correct equations are:
@IliahBorg has written: @DonaldB has written:live zebras finely tuned are un beatable for perfect "exposure evaluation"
You realize the meaning of the word "perfect", right?
no one is perfect.
How imperfect is the method you are using?
@DonaldB has written: @IliahBorg has written: @DonaldB has written:live zebras finely tuned are un beatable for perfect "exposure evaluation"
You realize the meaning of the word "perfect", right?
no one is perfect.
How imperfect is the method you are using?
after last nights testing, its as close as it gets. at least fast raw viewer is getting used for these conversations. its been a valuable tool so far.
@IliahBorg has written: @DonaldB has written: @IliahBorg has written: @DonaldB has written:live zebras finely tuned are un beatable for perfect "exposure evaluation"
You realize the meaning of the word "perfect", right?
no one is perfect.
How imperfect is the method you are using?
after last nights testing, its as close as it gets. at least fast raw viewer is getting used for these conversations.
Sorry I don't understand your answer.
We can continue when you will decide to post raw files, exposed by zebras and overexposed relative to zebras, under various lights, regular scenes as well as red flowers and blue flowers, a flower filling the frame.
@DonaldB has written: @IliahBorg has written: @DonaldB has written: @IliahBorg has written: @DonaldB has written:live zebras finely tuned are un beatable for perfect "exposure evaluation"
You realize the meaning of the word "perfect", right?
no one is perfect.
How imperfect is the method you are using?
after last nights testing, its as close as it gets. at least fast raw viewer is getting used for these conversations.
Sorry I don't understand your answer.
We can continue when you will decide to post raw files, exposed by zebras and overexposed relative to zebras, under various lights, regular scenes as well as red flowers and blue flowers, a flower filling the frame.
Sorry I don't understand your answer.
sorry its as close to perfect as posable.
id like to post a utube of the lcd . but sorry it has my full name attached and not prepared to disclose for obvious reasons. i would like to but certain members have ruined the trust.
i havnt a tripod with me so cant even take a snapshot with my phone of the rear lcd capturing the zebras. you will have to wait till im home from my camping trip.
@BillFerris has written:Actually, DSLRs newer than about 2013-15 and the modern crop of mirrorless bodies by Canon, Sony, Nikon and Fuji (representing the vast majority of all camera sales) are generally invariant starting somewhere in the ISO 400-800 range and continuing up to ISO 25600 or higher.
there is a difference between "invariant" and "invariant starting somewhere" ? if it "starting somewhere" then it is not invariant but only partially invariant ... that is it...
All ISO invariant ranges start somewhere.
@JohnVickers has written: @deejjjaaaa has written: @BillFerris has written:Actually, DSLRs newer than about 2013-15 and the modern crop of mirrorless bodies by Canon, Sony, Nikon and Fuji (representing the vast majority of all camera sales) are generally invariant starting somewhere in the ISO 400-800 range and continuing up to ISO 25600 or higher.
there is a difference between "invariant" and "invariant starting somewhere" ? if it "starting somewhere" then it is not invariant but only partially invariant ... that is it...
I don't think that that is a helpful way of looking at the problem.
I am not looking at anything - I am simply stating that camera's with dual gain sensors are NOT invariant - that was the whole point of what Aptina did - to break the mold and gain in S/N ...
they might be perfectly invariant in some range of nominal ISO values and thus you can call them partially invariant - no issues w/ that...
Any camera having a range of ISOs across which it is invariant...is invariant.
@deejjjaaaa has written: @JohnVickers has written: @deejjjaaaa has written: @BillFerris has written:Actually, DSLRs newer than about 2013-15 and the modern crop of mirrorless bodies by Canon, Sony, Nikon and Fuji (representing the vast majority of all camera sales) are generally invariant starting somewhere in the ISO 400-800 range and continuing up to ISO 25600 or higher.
there is a difference between "invariant" and "invariant starting somewhere" ? if it "starting somewhere" then it is not invariant but only partially invariant ... that is it...
I don't think that that is a helpful way of looking at the problem.
I am not looking at anything - I am simply stating that camera's with dual gain sensors are NOT invariant - that was the whole point of what Aptina did - to break the mold and gain in S/N ...
they might be perfectly invariant in some range of nominal ISO values and thus you can call them partially invariant - no issues w/ that...
Any camera having a range of ISOs across which it is invariant...is invariant.
Invariance it's always defined within some domain under certain transformations, so it was a moot point to start with. It's fine to define invariance of noise when ISO setting changes within a specified range.
This explains what Sony have done to resolve the raw file histogram issue. this is not a replacement for Jims excellent article. but explains a few un-answered questions about Sonys latest camera inclusions.