Good question. However, if you believe PetaPixel genera covers it better. petapixel.com/black-and-white-photography-guide/#:~:text=The%20medium%20earned%20its%20position,both%20film%20and%20digital%20cameras.
Leica has produced B&W versions of their digital cameras starting with the M9. Pentax now produces a B&W digital camera. Of course one can still get black and white film in all sizes up to 16x20 sheet film. The movie Oppenheimer is shot in both color and black and white to separate the dichotomy that was his life and deeds. The movie, "The Last Picture Show" would not be on the Library of Congress' list of most significant films if the story were told using color film. The only reason I asked is that it was removed from its current location and did not appear anyplace else as if it was totally being eliminate as a forum topic.
The genre of B&W is restricted by its monochrome nature with only tonality, form and texture to define it. To me Black and White is to important and too unique a medium and topic to be eliminated from the forum as a discussion topic.
It will ultimately be up to you admins to decide how fast and how much to compress the sections, and in what way. That most of the current membership came from DPR is a significant factor. Brand based division is familiar, and it is possible to make too many users overly uncomfortable with new ways of dividing things. But unless you do want to compete with DPR on gear reviews and discussion, you'll need to find ways to make users more comfortable participating in a broader set of activities and discussions, including those that cross brand-lines. The good news is that it is already happening and you have a great tool for facilitating it: the Threads view.
If you look at the most active threads in this forum with 100+posts, there are patterns: photo sharing and discussion threads, technical discussions like the one on exposure, topic-based non brand discussions like the ones on pre-visualization and AI, discussion about forum structure, and of course general arguments and complaints. In the second tier of active threads, with 25-100 responses, are a lot of really good threads that are in these same categories. Thread development and support are skills, and we have some members who are obviously good at this, so that is something that can be developed further in a purposeful way to help build interaction that is not limited to equipment.
And we all look forward to seeing what else you guys develop. I think there are more experts here than you may realize, and many of them would contribute engaging articles. Bill Ferris's ideas are great and would probably interest a number of folks, since video is far more popular a medium now than forums. (I'm a forum gal, but I acknowledge I'm a minority).
Thanks for allowing us the opportunity to share our ideas.
You got it wrong! I am not angry and storming off, I am just disappointed and leaving quietly. I am not seeking attention, especially from you. Infantile? Name-calling," hissy-fit, calling a man a girl? Kindergaten stuff. I am not insulted- I used the wrong word- I am disgusted!
Typical online troll. You don't know me, who I am, waht I do, and waht I have to offer. I am just a faceless name on a website. I made no reference to the old DPR forum- never had a moderation issue there.
When you say "we", do you speak for everyone on this site? If so, you certainly don't need me aroundd here.
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So what do you 'suggest' in terms of moderation Ed? Common sense suggestions outside the usual no-threatening behaviour or porn, or any of the other stuff we can all agree on.
Where do you draw the line as to what is not acceptable for all? Free speech, non-inclusiveness, off-topic, shackling the First Amendment, etc..etc..?
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I did not suggest any specific rules, any kind of code of conduct, or any censorship or deprivation of free speech. I do not care about going off-topic because in real in-person conversations, sometimes folks will drift into othere related issues or any kind of friendly chat. On many forums and threads, including some of the ones I read HERE in this new forum, dethorate into verbal combat t, and behavior that would not be tolerated in most civil human relationships. The entire value of the thread is destroyed in the chaos.
At the end of the day, the founder and managers will determine the policies. My operative words would be mutual respect, patience, and a bit of kindness. Persona attacks should be prohibited and removed- is that draconian, unconstitutional, or absurd?
As I alluded to in a prior post, you have no idea as to who I am, where I came from, and waht kind of life I have led. I can tell you that I am no wallflower and have dealt with growing up in a very tough neighborhood, serving 2- tours in the Vietnam War and dealing with all kidsof bullies, and reprobates. This did not manifest in my being a tough guy or a hard-ass. I have become super appreciative of peace and cordial behavior.
I have been a professional photographer for nearly 60 years and still working. I learned a lot about photography "on the street" and was fortunate enough to have a decent formal education in technology. I have benefited from the advice of many generous mentors and teachers. Officially,l as an old man with a gray beard, befor I head off the graveyard, I would like to share what I have learned over the years and learn someof the new stuff along the way. I just don't want to do that in a hostile and unfriendly environment.
The business of photography can be a kind of rough racket. It's highly competitive in some geographic locations, and in a day's work, there can be many hurdles to jump over. We need to deal with art directors, clients, suppliers, models, security folks, and all kinds of people and personalities. We have to get into places where photogahy may be restricted, seek out cooperation, work with a team spirit, sell and promote our services, and run a business. Believe me- multi-tasking is overrated! In so many of these instances "people-skills" almost trump technical savvy. One basic rule and philosophy I go by is that people do not want to deal with folks they don't like, let alone pay them their hard-earned money.
I am no longer operating in a war zone so in my spare time, I don't want to deal with rough stuff anymore or have to put up with excessive nonsense. If this is perceived as selfish or overly tempermental- well, so be it!
If suggesting some common-sense moderation is too much of an ask, please accept my apologies. I just realized this is not the place for me.
Regarding the latest update, "Photo Equipment try 2". Minor, but the Micro 4/3 should be called Micro 4/3 & 4/3 to be inclusive of the prior DSLR models like Full Frame or APS C & H are to their type.
That said, I lean towards the using brands for the gear. I may not be interested in say, Sony, but I might end up opening posts in a FF forum about Sony that I am not interested in because the title is not specific enough to tell me what it is about. If grouped by brand, then I would dip into the forums for the brands I own and not the others, unless I was considering a change.
Arvo has come up with a combination of brand and non-branded forums for us to look at. I've added them into the dev2 site as 'Photo Equipment Try 3'. Have a look.
I'm going to put up a poll in a few minutes (new thread) so you can choose what you want. Let's see if there's an overwhelming desire for one of the three.
Interesting thought, but the mount isn‘t the end all be all either, don‘t you think? What about the many EF lenses adapted to RF (I don‘t own a single RF lens even though that‘s the mount of my camera… I‘m sure it‘s the same with Nikon mounts for some. What about different formats which share the same mount? What about Medium Format?
What about third party lenses available in different mounts?
I don‘t think this would clear everything up either…
We have more in common than you think. My direct family and relations suffered greatly during WW2 and many died to protect the freedoms we have today. Remembrance day is 365 24/7 in my books, but that is another story. Thank you for sharing part of yours. As you may have realized, you fought for those very freedoms during your tours in Vietnam, so it surprises me that you are willing to compromise on others ability to engage in disagreements and freedom of expression, regardless how despondent it can get.
Comparing those discussions as war battles is a bit over the top. The very fact that we can discuss freely on this site/thread without being heavily moderated is fantastic.
Remember, anything you don't like can be ignored and overlooked. But it seems that many that complain about the moderation are purposely going to the dumpster and reading the threads and conversations. Ironic that they would all get their knickers in a twist about it, when in fact, they could simply ignore and walk away from it. The beauty of it all, is that this site brings that uniqueness of inclusivity.
Don't think of it as a war zone. Re-think it as a form of expression outside the narrow mindedness that others want to impose here. I think some members take it all too seriously and get incensed at the drop of a hat. Thicker skin is needed, along with more objectivity.
There are many of us who can discuss our own direct family involvement and injuries from WW2 and our personal service in Vietnam. Your bringing in such issues into this discussion cheapens those issues and is very inappropriate. What many of us learned, and it seems that you did not, is that along with the freedoms we fought for was an equal sense of respect for others and their rights and a sense of reserve. Freedom of speech does not mean that anyone can say anything they want, at any time, under any circumstance and with malice and anger, wrapping themselves in disclaimers such as “you are free to ignore and to walk away.”
Ed has been advocating an atmosphere here of mutual respect and regard, the only way that ideas can be shared. Such an atmosphere does, and has always required limits, guidelines and some means of oversight. Free-running “anything goes, anyone can say and do anything at all that they want any time they want” is destructive chaos. It’s not free speech at all. Its being a thug, It’s uncaring, it’s malicious, it’s childish and it’s completely unwanted.
I have absolutely no intention of defending Stig here or justify the earlier comments directed at EdShapiro, which were completely uncalled for and unnecessary in my opinion, but "saying anything you want" and "doing anything you want" are clearly VERY distinct things in my understanding* and I don't think they should be conflated with one another. And I haven't seen any indication Stig is advocating for the latter.
*if I'm just missing some context or meaning, because I don't understand some nuance of the English language here, I apologize in advance.
I feel like Try 3 is so far the best compromise, given the different preferences. And I appreciate your fast responses to new ideas and suggestions by the way - excellent work!
Without reading all the replies, I think you're too hasty in hacking and chopping. Also, I'd certain pay attention to the big names Jim, Iliah and the like and if Jim wants an MF forum, give him one. They are the ones that help legitimize the site.
On Danno and Donald and the like, I'd subsidize their camera gear, pay their premium subscriptions to some other site, and wish them good luck elsewhere.
On the couple or so fellows that get their personal jollies berating Bob, I'd ban them. Soon as I recognized them again, I'd ban them again. There's no corrélation between someone getting banned for calling Canon, Sony or Nikon gear crap, someone in a bit of a heated argument they don't see eye to eye on, and what those fellows do.
That should be very easily doable and would be much better than the current situation because the original BS and the BS that sometimes continues in the Dumpster is still too easily viewable as just another thread on the Threads List page.
Just create a sub-domain for dprevived and put the Dumpster there with a link to it in the thread posts came from on the main dprevived domain.
