"The proper exposure"

May I ask who, just out of interest ?

Thanks - Richard F Lyon - thought it might be him, Good guy.

Foveonistas w/ Lyon outlined:

Integration time is a bit difficult to explain if we are trying to make a definition of exposure work for film. But also in some cases with film there is no shutter at all, only a lens cap ;)

Or a baseball cap.

But didn't the lens cap then efectively perform the function of a shutter?

It does, absolutely. But, technically, it isn't a shutter. And the funny thing here, on top of that, the motion with the cap isn't meant to ensure the same exposure across the frame. My personal preference is something along of "while the light hits the sensitive area".

We played lapta, without caps ;)
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lapta_(game)

Yes, common sense should tell what that means practically but then someone like minded as xpatUSA would probably come along and say that with a mirrorless camera the light is always hitting the sensitive area even when the camera is pointing to the ground as you walk around in between shots.

I haven't met any beginner yet that does not understand the purpose of the camera's shutter regardless of the way it is actually implemented on a camera so I have no problem using "........while the shutter was open."

I see a couple of problems with Danno's definition. First, since it doesn't apply to electronic shutters, it excludes the best-selling type of camera in the world right now (you know, the one that makes phone calls). Sensor means it doesn't apply to film (which a lot of us still shoot, remember). And I can't figure out the use of the past tense, though I struggle to come up with a concrete reason why it's wrong. (There is an implication that one can never take pictures in the future.)

Not to poke at Danno, fun as that may be, but your definition strikes me as a way to both narrow and over-complicate the classic definition.

H = E * t seems like the classic E = i * t with different letters, although I did see one reference that made me wonder if the "H" variable is specific to digital photography. Bob?

So far I don't think anyone has done better than the classic E = i * t that I learned in Photo 101, and I suppose if it needs simplification, one can say "How much for how long."

Kudos, the conversation was interesting enough to make me come out of lurk mode.

Aaron

Well, since we're being pedantic, most modern fuel-injected engines (at least those that run on gasoline) still have throttles. Fiat's MultiAir and BMW's Valvetronic engines use their intake valves for throttle control, so technically don't use a throttle, but I understand they have one as a fail safe (it't just held wide open for normal engine operation). Even some diesels, which traditionally did not have throttles, now do.

It is true that you cannot go WOT in an electric car.

Aaron

What do you tell people who have cameras with no physical shutter?

Aaron

Maybe you missed it but earlier I posted:

"I haven't met any beginner yet that does not understand the purpose of the camera's shutter regardless of the way it is actually implemented on a camera so I have no problem using '........while the shutter was open.'"

That has been asked many times and my reply is the same as then.

Neither do I with you using it.
On a side note, I don't have a problem with light hitting the sensor all the time, not only during the act of photographic exposure.

There's an old, but still good, hour long video of Dick Lyon giving a Google TechTalk back in 2007 available on YouTube for anyone interested.

www.youtube.com/PhotoTechEDU Day 5: Silicon Image Sensors - Dick Lyon

Thanks for posting !!

A proper exposure for me is one which which results from:

Look at the scene and it's lighting.

Decide how it should look when "developed".

Set the aperture and shutter knobs according to learning and experience ... or my trusty battery-less Sekonic 😀.

Everything else left at default.

Ker-lick!