there is a difference between "invariant" and "invariant starting somewhere" ? if it "starting somewhere" then it is not invariant but only partially invariant ... that is it...
May 4, 2023
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dear, you made a simple error in wording originally - and now you are trying to find a way out with irrelevant notions ("enough", "a ton of dynamic range to deal with", "sufficiently low enough", etc, etc ) ... your cameras not invariant, they are only partially invariant within some ranges of nominal ISO values... and that they are only partially invariant nobody is disputing ... you are either pregnant or you are not... any camera with sensor using a dual gain in not invariant and noticeably so - that was the whole point of it - to make a tangible improvement in S/N ...
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Sorry! I was replying to JohnVickers; but I forgot to make that clear by quoting him.
Had you written something like "Please go and preach to those members as well", and left it at that, that would have been courteous. But what you actually wrote was not what I would regard as courteous.
Best,
David
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I wasn't as courteous as I could have been because I saw you as being unfair and biased by singling me out and not including the other members I mentioned.
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For some deep shadows. Often, the read noise improvements from the Aptina trick are swamped by photon noise.
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Nothing.
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Nope not right. Depends on the conditions.
The in-camera histogram loses spatial information (it doesn't show where the clipping is), zebras lose information on distribution/light intensity. Both are based on jpeg/rgb processed image, distorted against raw because of applied white balance. You seem to fail to understand that white balance skews original raw rgb channels.
RawDigger shows more accurate information on raw data, both histogram and spatial. Again it looks like you don't understand the difference between in-camera RGB histogram and raw histogram in RawDigger.
If RawDigger shows clipping, there's no way to recover the blown areas.
If RGB in-camera histogram or zebras shows clipping, there may still be room for recovery if you shoot raw.That's why there's less information in in-camera histogram or zebras than in a raw histogram. Unfortunately there's no camera that shows a raw histogram as far as I know. At least it's neither of Sony cameras. The lack of raw histogram can be compensated by different techniques discussed in this thread but they all have caveats.
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I made no such error. I used alternate words this time as you seemed to have some struggle with reading comprehension the first time. The original wording - “largely” invariant, meaning: to some extent, but not entirely invariant, was meant to succinctly get the point across that, if you are a RAW shooter, there may be options available that will allow you to, in some situations, make good use of the sometimes ISO invariant nature of some sensors to use a lower than normal ISO value in-camera, and apply any necessary “brightening” in post instead, dear.
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If RD shows clipping in one channel, ACR and Lr can often do quite a credible job reconstructing the highlights. But the photographer's objective should be to avoid the need for that.
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If we would only know what sacrifices are made for the lower gain ;)
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I'd argue that reconstruction is not exactly the same as recovery (that is, just changed tone mapping) - reconstruction still implies the loss of information.
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I don't disagree, but someone could read what you originally wrote and think that one blown channel will have a really bad effect on the resulting image. .
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For some Canons, a modified firmware will do this:
magiclantern.fm
It's very strange that we still need to discuss crutches and compare workarounds to know clipping while shooting raw. -
I know, ML seems to be abandoned since circa 2018 :( There's no support for Canon 5DIV and later.
In my R5, I don't even have live zebras (only in post-shooting previews)... -
True, one channel can be fine to blow - I meant unrecoverable information, but it can be compensated to some extent, yes. From the experience it's usually ok to blow the red one in sunset sky. It's bad if it's green.
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IMHO very low activity since at least 2020. I keep 5DMkIII, a rather competent camera.
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Intriguingly I really like this picture (perhaps with slightly lighter processing), well done Erik.
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was there ever a camera invariant all over the range? maybe an early sigma foveon?
