Forum update document for discussion

Lots of reading and ideas to absorb! It sounds lkie a great plan. What I feel might be missing, since this concept is about the elements of photography as opposed to all the gear talk and arguments is some of the following categories or topic that should (I.M.H.O.) be isolated from the mix but is applicable to all:

The dynamics of photographic lighting; Folks, on many online forums, are l always talking about lighting in terms of gear- wht to use, waht to buy, etc. If they understand the basic principles, these matters would not be all that mysterious or difficult. Concepts about angle of incidesse, reflectivity, diffusion, directing of light, qualityof light, color temperature (whitebalance) creating dimentinality wit right. SEEING and recognizing light and lots more! Basicalyl, in traditional photogahy you are rendering a 3-dimensional subject on a 2-dimensional screen or sheet of paper. The illusion of dimension is created by the usage of LIGHT. I am not talking about deep dives into physics or space-age technology- just practical basics and artistic usage. Whether one uses flash, natural light, LED, tungsten, existing light, or candles- all the basics still apply.

Photo-Electronics. I've counted hundreds of online inquiries about all the gadgetsm triggers, snf newfnagled devised that folks are trying to get to operat properly They sped more time attempting to get so of this stuff to work than actually "taking pictures"! Again, I am not proposing a section on electronic engineering but an easy-to-understand discussion about HOW all this stuff works and why all these gadgets are not always compatible with all the others. Another section or a sub-section dedicated to electron flas dispel all the mythology about flas usage. So many fokls have Speedligh and haven't the slightest idea of how to take full advantage of them. The same problem, as I see it applies to modifiers and flash accessories. Again, not brand-based but the theories that pertain to any knid of light modifications. Whether you purchase a costly modifier or make one out of cardboard and aluminum foil- the same principles apply.

Gearheads? My notion is that separating SOME photograhers, good, bad, create, artistic, or not, forom they hear anxiety, dedication or lust, is like trying to cleave a dimond with a razor blade, undoing some things that were joined with g Gorilla Glue or unceremoniously ripping of a bandaid or scab of a healg wound! PAINFUL! Perhaps on certain theoretical discussions or" how-to threads" a certain degree of "applicable equipmt" data can be included but no kind of brand vs. brand arguments.

Professionalism? What about professionals and folks aspiring to various full or part-time commercial endeavors? Portraiture, commercial and industrial photography, glamour/s fashion.event coverage, socai photography such as weddings and family occasions, photojournalism, business management, legalities, and business and promotional planning, and copyright and licensing issues. Even dedicated amateurs can learn valuable tips and techniques from professionals.

As a professional photographer, I would be pleased to contribute to a forum that is well-organized and moderated. I now limit my participation to the few existg sites I visit and post on. I will never become a so-called Veteren Member because those distinctions are based on quantity not quality. This is not an EGO thing! It's just that one comes to realize that it is a waste of time and effort when there is too much chaos and ongoing childish behavior, absolutely no decorum, and a ton of seriously invalid information.

Good moderation is required. Good moderation is not draconian or dictatorial or should be considered censorship. Good clean debate is healthy and informative. Folks can disagree and still remain cordial and ethical. Nasty and unnecesserally combative posts should removed and the continual pervarof that knid of nonsense should be banned. There is nothing undemocratic about that! We don't need
parliamentary or courtroom-like procedures or heavy policing- just good manners!

Just my suggestions! Thanks for your consideration😁!

Hi,

Across the street? I thought going from the front of a bowling alley shaped store to the back was a walk. Now I see that's not a walk at all. :P

We used to have an art store where it was on three floors. And no elevator. My wife's favorite store. It wasn't far from one of the camera shops. So we'd make a Saturday morning out of going to first one then the other. That art store is no more.

Stan

Thanks for your reply. One other thing I should have asked in the first go round. Can individual threads be migrated to a target forum? Up to now I have followed the historical case for the Sunday Cat! thread and kept it in the same forum as the original. With compression of the structure continuity will be lost, so the individual threads may need to go somewhere else, although there is no clear target forum at this point.

Good grief! Stop trying to suggest YOUR idea of moderation please! Nobody needs another replica of DPReview.

👍🏻

Rich

👍🏼

If there's one big forum for "photography technique" a lot of these things could be either, single detailed threads by someone knowledgeable which are pinned in there or handled in some form of editorial content and then linked to in one or a couple of pinned threads at the top. I get the notion of separating things up, and agree that some of the themes you mentioned are very important, but if you can tag threads in some form it just isn't necessary or helpful to create more (smaller and less visited) specialized categories for things like that in my opinion.

While I personally don't approve of some responses or words used by @Stig (whom I perceive to be a bit overly allergic to any kind of suggestion of any interference with the way conversations are handled,) I also think that this has been said over and over again, and the reaction from the team responsible for the site has always been the same: There absolutely will be no moderation in the way you seem to suggest. This is one of the topics where I have accepted that this stance is not only a firm one by the people responsible for the site, but in some form one of the main reasons they are doing it. While I never had any interaction whatsoever with any moderator on dpreview, I also understand that a not insignificant number of users here share that sentiment and in addition many who don't, have already left. While I personally still have my reservations about it and am uncertain if this approach might work, I've decided to trust the team on this one for now and see how things develop over time.

Because if things turn out in a way which I don't appreciate after some time, I'd rather have to accept this whole endeavor as a "well intended but failed experiment" and leave the place behind than insisting on things being done the same way "because we've always done it that way and for some reason I wasn't afffected negatively by it". It would feel unfair to those who felt like they weren't handled justly by the dpreview moderation system (we've heard a number of examples which suggest that it wasn't just about "bad apples" among the moderators, but a systemic problem there).

Like a couple of others seem to have already suggested: In a place like this it's ultimately mostly up to the users to create a welcoming and interesting atmosphere, worthy of participating and I appreciate a number of people (whom I've only met recently) here very much already. This includes some, who may be considered part of the "troublemakers" or at least what a moderation system focused on enforcing "just good manners!" may deem as such. So, I'll continue to try to give those people a fair chance as well, and if they continue to only distract or start to stir up emotions for no reason, I'll ignore them and let their off-topic posts wander to the dumpster, where they can be further discussed by those who enjoy that kind of conversation.

Sorry for the long-winded (and admittedly also partly off-topic) response. I just feel like it seemed a bit "smuggled in" there, when the topic at hand was something completely different...

Or as W. Eugene Smith often said. "I didn’t write the rules – why should I follow them? Since I put a great deal of time and research to know what I am about? I ask and arrange if I feel it is legitimate. The honesty lies in my – the photographer’s – ability to understand." Creating art is about breaking out of the conventional wisdom or "expert thought." If one is going to be hide bound by convention and the photographic rules of "experts," then one is no different than a computer.

There are multiple ways to cut up this pie
There is no right or wrong way
Whichever way it is done, some people will like it and others won't

Personally, I don't really mind how it's cut up (it's still the same pie), so I would suggest going with Alan's model - amended by any of the thoughts, above, he wants to take on board - and see how that works out. If there are any areas where it transpires over time that clearly don't work, I'm sure Alan & co will be humble enough to make some further tweaks

Really appreciate the openness of the running of this site - at DPReview I felt like a bit of an "intruder" at a select club - here I feel that everyone is treated as an equal (though I freely admit by skills/talent/knowledge are nowhere near the levels of many who post here)

Tim

Hi,

It looks.decent to me. I like the way the APS-C and H are combined. And I like the film section being there as well.

Stan

Alan,

Looks good. Type vs manufacturer - I have no strong feelings either way

Dumpster in Threads view - personally, I would rather it was visible there - they're sometimes good for a laugh and easy enough to skip if not in that mood - but I'll acquiesce to the majority view

I would split the gear forums differently (as outline in my post on page 1 here) but, frankly, the way you have split it also goes a long way to eliminating gear BRAND in discussion threads. Personally, given that you wish to position this site around photography results and process/techniques rather than “brand vs brand” I think that the draft structure you laid out is as good as any.